Who Wins

@Uncrustable:

Don’t be thick  :-P

Your answer is in my post

Not trying to be. my original question was what to do if the Russians DO NOT defend poland and withdraw everthing to the Ukraine. Does Germany move in with everthing? If so what does Austria have left to move into Poland with. I’m not trying to be argumentative, just seeing what is an effective counter and specifics on the troop deployment.

Kim

@Uncrustable:

AH attacking Poland turn 1 would be pretty silly  :|

It would very obviously be AH 2, so that on Russia’s 2nd turn if they wanted to attack Poland it’s defenses would be maximized (germ + AH force)

If Russia stacks Poland turn 1 then Germany attacks followed by an AH attack and russia is now screwed for the rest of the game (and so too are the allies)

The only option under this would be Germany first turn lol considering russia goes before Germany

I will spell it out
Germany stacks Poland G1 AH reinforces AH2
Now on R2 Russia can’t attack Poland

Not quite sure what you’re getting at here; but a few points:

I’m not saying the UK can prevent Germany conquering Russia - what I mean is that the British should be in a position to threaten such tts with enough force to make it necessary for the CPs to keep most if not all their eastern forces in the east, rather than considering that front closed down and sent the units back west. Hence, large CP forces being “trapped” in the east should not be an issue. Bu using the London-Karelia shuck, Britain can always switch forces to where the Germans don’t want them to be. Only a substantial German navy in the Baltic can counter this, and the Allies should not allow that to exist by that stage of the game.

I agree that the Allies “liberating” these tt is another misstep in the RR rules, but they will only satisfy me when those pro-German Red Soviet units begin to appear…

@xxstefanx:

Have you tried this by now, Flashman?

First, let me say that the new rule (Western Allies conquering Russian TTs) is nonsense!

Ok, now to your questions:
In both CP victories Russia was forced into RR R5 with 5 Russian TTs conquered by an G-AH-OT-East Strategy.
So there ARE no massive UK troops neither in Karelia nor in Sevastopol.

@Flashman

Forget your beloved rails for a moment!
IF CPs win they do so out of ressources - eliminating Russia early turning the tide. (so do the Allies btw if CPs fail)
If you are successful Germany reaches 50+ or even 55+ being able to afford a 2-front-war.
They tap back slowly but thats not decisive.

So again: Did you try it?

@Uncrustable
CORRECT: G1 Poland all in + fighter AND AH2 reinforcing so that Russian attack from Ukraine would result in (significantly) higher losses on their side :evil:

It is all about the tempo!!!
CP strategy on the east can only be:
a) Russia moves back
b) Russia suffers casualties against ONE of the piling G or AH stacks so that the other can get momentum!

R4 or R5 (R6 AT THE LATEST!!!) Russia must be cracked out!

Sorry, did I try what?

I’ve been experimenting with the various changes to movement rules proposed by LH.

The trick is to allow units to move more quickly to the front, without the game becoming dominated by super-stacks, and without making a German entry into Paris automatic.

You said you wanted to try my opening I already posted in the “CP playbook” topic weeks ago!

Get back to page 9 (middle) in this thread for the outline of the AH-G-OT-East-Strategy.

As it seems there are no tricks necessary! :wink:
CPs have a clear chance to win the game!

P.S.: Low Luck or even Lowest Luck delivers conclusions in a significantly more valid way!

Btw we always play the game with ONE OOB change:
Switzerland is impassable (everything else is utter nonsense tbh!)

With Switzerland OOB Germany R1 would even be (far) stronger and the CPs are already winning games!

@xxstefanx:

Btw we always play the game with ONE OOB change:
Switzerland is impassable (everything else is utter nonsense tbh!)

With Switzerland OOB Germany R1 would even be (far) stronger and the CPs are already winning games!

You and Texas lol

Allies are the ones winning all the games
:-P

@Uncrustable:

@xxstefanx:

Btw we always play the game with ONE OOB change:
Switzerland is impassable (everything else is utter nonsense tbh!)

With Switzerland OOB Germany R1 would even be (far) stronger and the CPs are already winning games!

You and Texas lol

Allies are the ones winning all the games
:-P

Don’t cut quotes out without the context!
And do not throw me into the same camp as Texas because from his posts he really seems beginner or - lets say “has strange ideas”.

Streamlined CP play in an all out East-Strategy has delivered some wins for the CPs in our veteran Axis gaming group.
That’s all!
I am nowhere saying they are necessarily stronger than the allies.
(Allies got their wins as well, of course!)

P.S.: As you should have noticed I already gave an outlay for the first buys and moves for the not so experienced players who still try such nonsense and build much navy with CPs for instance! (page before)

“P.S.: As you should have noticed I already gave an outlay for the first buys and moves for the not so experienced players who still try such nonsense and build much navy with CPs for instance! (page before)”

Or in Texas’s case, throw away the AH fleet round one to block the UK cruiser from doing nothing lol  :-P

In the one instance the CP won in my 5 games i played, it was because Russia got a bit overzealous vs Germany and AH and lost too much too early, the Allies never sunk the AH fleet (in all the other games the Allies sink the AH fleet by the end of round 1) and France was not nearly aggressive enough in taking nuetrals (such as Spain)

Flashman i believe (maybe it was someone else) made great points about UK and/or USA landing units in nothern Russian to aid Russia or retake it if conquered

Also in the one CP win the Autobots went full tilt to India (except the proturkey nuetral force which was used to take Greece) and got it round 8 or 9 i believe, but it was greatly aided by the fact that russia fell so quick and UK could no longer spend so much in India to defend against turkey

Everyone is a beginner on this game, it has only been out a little over a month.  You can’t use WWII strats in this game, they don’t work.  You don’t have the Air Force to blitz the Allies with, you have to grind it out.  The CPs have to bide their time until they can dump a bunch of tanks and then hit the Allies first.  Both the land and sea mechanics are so different from previous games that we all are figuring this out on the fly.

Yes, I am willing to try anything and everything during play testing and strat planning, but why not? You have nothing to lose.

What I don’t understand is this:

• The Allies begin the game with more land units than the CPs;
• The Allies begin the game with more income than the CPs;
• So then why is the prevailing strategies that cause the CPs to lose units at a faster rate the only logical strategy;
• Additionally, why when these hit the Allies fast strategies don’t work, why does everyone go complain to the designers rather than try something else entirely?
• Also, why is it that those of us that exercise our creativity ridiculed?  Are you afraid we will be successful and Larry won’t make changes to enable your strategy to work?
• Finally, I am glad a kill France/Russia fast strategy doesn’t work, otherwise this game would lose a lot of replayability and would quickly collect dust on a shelf somewhere.

Bottom line… Don’t be afraid to try something different, what do you have to lose?

@Uncrustable:

Or in Texas’s case, throw away the AH fleet round one to block the UK cruiser from doing nothing lol  :-P

Seriously?  If you are going to repost my ideas at least get them right.  I said the UK cruiser is likely going to clean up the Ottoman fleet.  Posts like these make you sound like you are either 12 years old or lack reading comprehension.  If you are going to insult me, do it to me directly or better yet, in a PM.  These posts add nothing to the discussion.

@Uncrustable:

Also in the one CP win the Autobots went full tilt to India (except the proturkey nuetral force which was used to take Greece) and got it round 8 or 9 i believe, but it was greatly aided by the fact that russia fell so quick and UK could no longer spend so much in India to defend against turkey

This is why your CP’s won: British played screwed up India. As Britain i rarely buy a war fleet in the atlantic (1BB in 9 games i think). Why should you, the french are strong enough, the british fleet from India can reinforce the italian and thus relieve the french BB from it’s duty there. So the brittish player can buy 100% in India B1, B2 B3. The frnech transports can carry the brittish troops from england and canada in those early turns. From B4 you have arond 40IPC with Britain, so you spend 20IPC in India (more than the Autobots have by then) and spend the rest in England. because at that time the US can help.

Because of the big US-market I understand why the US-entry was set in Round 4. With this setting its hard for the CPs to win at all (will be even harder with this new LH Ideas of naval +1 movement)  If you try out an Italy War Entry on turn 2 and especially an US-Entry on turn 6 its touch and go wether CPs or Allies win.

If you put back American entry to round 6 you need to restrict them from buying units before then.
America at peace did not build for war - it should go to war with the same number of units it starts the game with.

@Flashman:

If you put back American entry to round 6 you need to restrict them from buying units before then.
America at peace did not build for war - it should go to war with the same number of units it starts the game with.

That’s right.
I would even advocate R8!
But then their production should be more in line with real capacity meaning 40 IPCs.
And of course 6 Inf and 2 Art for start is overrepresented!

@Flashman:

If you put back American entry to round 6 you need to restrict them from buying units before then.
America at peace did not build for war - it should go to war with the same number of units it starts the game with.

You are right Flashman this is much more historical. I think starting with R6 and 40 IPCs (like Stefan suggested) from this point is a good solution. What do you think about Italy beginnig in R2? I think they should be allowed to collect income from the start of the game and build up in Venice to attack in Trentino and Isonzo in R2.

Played our second game last night.  The Central Powers did much better this game, I think, but still didn’t win.  Some of the success was from slightly better-than-average dice over the course of the game, but they weren’t tremendously slanted.

The Americans did save all their money for the first few rounds, not even buying until round four, so didn’t mobilize 'til five.  That was by choice, though, as they wanted to bring a seven-stack of tanks on their first transport convoy.

Overall, the plan for the CP was to not attempt to expand in all directions simultaneously, but to mostly play defense in the west while eliminating Russia, then turn around in force.  It went fairly well.  Austria and Germany did give some ground in the west, with France even taking Ruhr for a couple rounds (that hurt).  Russia was forced in revolution Round 5, which was actually a mistake.  Germany really needs that six+ bucks down the road.  After Russia fell, though, the CP was able to push back pretty strong in the west, with the Austrians able to take Venice, Piedmont, Burgundy, Marseilles, and Bordeaux and the Germans in control of Belgium and Lorraine.

We actually called the game with a sizable Austrian stack sitting outside Paris, but Germany had finally lost the naval war in the North Sea (the French spent a round buying boats to turn the tide), Americans were landing in Spain, and the Ottomans had stalled out contesting India after Americans landed in Constantinople and a stack or two had to turn around.  They had gone almost straight there with nearly everybody–I did divert one round to kill Brits in Arabia, which was a mistake (survivors transported back to India for defense, and my attackers were out of position now).

Review:  This is only game two for us, but I’m more convinced now that some balance factors might could stand to be addressed.  India is almost impossible to take out, I think.  The Central Powers also have no real way to begin to contest the Mediterranean, it doesn’t seem.  I haven’t experimented with Austrian navy yet, but it doesn’t look promising.

The problem with allowing Italy to collect income R1 without being at war is that Austria would have no reason not to invade Venice. If Italy doesn’t collect a round of income it might just be worth leaving it alone for a turn.

Sounds reasonable if they were still allowed to move units in R1.
I like playing my historical scenario version:

In Round 1 Austria concentrates on Serbia, Montenegro (Albania) and Russia in the East, in Vienna they don`t bother about Italy, since it declared its neutrality early in August 14. Because of this, there were no significant troops in Tyrol or Trient.
When it comes to Italys turn they (collect income, build units and) move their troops to the borders in the north (lets say this is the phase were Britain and France convinced Italy to join them.)

In R2 (Spring 1915) Austria confronted with the Italian requirements and troop movements has now to protect its borders; not only in the east but also in the west! (mostly with “k.k.Standschützen”). The signs are clear that Rome has joined the Entente and will attack…

Does your suggestion for Italy joining R2 also mean that they weren`t allowed to move units in R1?