The CP Playbook

Once you’ve replaced initial losses the fleet should be strong enough, assuming the French reinforce it. If the Germans want to fight a naval building race you need fewer men in the west.

Infantry is sufficient in Karelia to begin with as the main aim is to defend here until the Revolution. Once turn 4 comes along tanks should be a big part of the purchase for the western front.

Taking T-J, Arabia, Syria and Mesopotamia will give you a boost, but be willing to trade them. Harry the Germans out of Africa, taking over neutral colonies. By the time you’re retaking Russian areas your income should be pushing 50 IPCs.

Look at this way, why would the Allies allow the CP to build their navy?  If they are smart, they will destroy it by the 2nd turn.  They are much better positioned to maintain a strong navy, especially Britain and the U.S.  If I am the allies, I hope Austria-Hungary is wasting money on ships.  Then I can better protect Italy and France, and Russia can at least entertain the idea of making an offensive.

Tuscany will be taken back by Italy, but you get immediate IPCs (and Italy loses immediate IPCs) and you immediately put pressure on them by being only one step from Rome.  Your troops in Venice can reinforce/counterattack next turn as appropriate.  It’s all about being aggressive and moving the front.  And don’t get me wrong, I like planes - but you only need one of them to move all your artillery up to 4s.  I found that attacking a territory with a number of artillery and infantry supported by one or two planes (since most allied territories won’t have even one or two planes) was plenty effective.  I built maybe one plane a turn for the first few turns, and sent them to different fronts until air supremacy was established in each.

@BJCard:

The problem is, if you spend nothing on Navy as the CPs, the Allies can land anywhere by sea- including in Russia.  Even one submarine per turn by Germany and Austria will force at least Britain into building a BB per turn.  You aren’t trying to compete in the sea, just restricting movement of the Allies.  Typically the Allies cannot take out either the German or Austrian Navy on their own due to attacking separately and naval mines.  If Austria over time has a fleet that can threaten the Med, Britain will be forced to send ships there and buy more for the home fleet= less British ground forces in France and India.

I don’t see the point of taking Tuscany as Austria since it would be taken back by Italy anyway- you can only land 2 troops there and Italy will surely consolidate their position there.

With how fragile air power is in the game, you cannot have enough air power, France can easily buy a plane per turn for the first 3-4 turns and still have a defensive front waiting for Germany.

The bonus of the Russian Revolution is it takes that theater out of the game, plus you do not have to send enough forces to take Moscow, just enough to contest it.  You have to take Paris either way, and if you are strong enough to get Paris, then Rome should not be too bad.

The only friendly troops you can mobilize as the CPs are in Bulgaria.

Lastly, for Flashman- if Britain is landing troops in Karelia and supplying Russia from India, what is keeping France afloat and the Ottoman Empire at bay?  Are the Ottomans not going for Egypt? Â

Ah, well there’s the difference.  We are playing with different Russian Revolution rules.  Those have gone through several iterations.  The current rule two weeks ago when I started playing was that the CP had to maintain at least one infantry in any contested territories and could move out other units.  No other units, allied or CP, could be moved into Russian territory that were not already there.  Russian units were removed from the board outside original territories.  Allied units had one turn to get out of Russia or they were also removed from the board.  There is no such restriction for the CP.  (And why would there be, since they caused the revolution?)  It looks to me like your interpretation of the rules strongly favor the Allies.

Assuming the rules are as I’ve stated above (whether official or “house rules”), I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the CP to expect to be threatening Moscow by turn 5 or 6.  Good axis players will be hammering Russia from Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the Ottoman.  Ottoman can shut down Sevestapool as happened in my game.  Although you correctly pointed out earlier that Britain can keep reinforcing Karelia, if the U.S. is not in the war yet or just entering at the end of turn 4, what will be the cost to France if Britain is focused on saving Russia?  Despite Britain’s economic strength in this game, that just seems like a really tall order.

@Flashman:

Even if the Allies are stupid enough to allow this, how long will it take these CP units to get to the western front?

Remember that the official new ruling on RR is that the Allies can take control of CP occupied Russian tts (rather than returning them to Russia). The British should be in a strong enough position in Persia/Mesopotamia and Karelia to ensure that the CPs can send no troops back west without losing all they’ve conquered in Russia.

The Allies must play as a team, using their sea transport advantage to be exactly where the CPs don’t want them to be. If the Allies play as individuals looking after their own interests they will hand the game to the enemy.

@kraftwrk_5:

Try to get Russia in bad shape by the time the U.S. enters the war.  Ideally, you can take Moscow or at least force the Russian Revolution by turns 5/6 (RR happened in turn 6 in my game), then all your CP troops can be sent to the west.

I’m going by the official RR rules as they stand. I don’t really agree with them, but we have to have a common reference at this stage, so its OOF I use.

The more Britain sends to Russia, the more Germany has to send east. The key point is that Britain can switch armies to either front much faster than Germany, so use that to your advantage.

Now, if the official RR rules changed again and the UK had to hand over “liberated” tts to Revolutionary Russia, or had to leave Russia altogether after the change, then the strategy would have to be very different.

@kraftwrk_5
You are correct!  8-)

@Flashman
Don’t think about the tempo for your beloved railways.
Allies have 118 IPCs starrting income (including US), whereas CPs only get 77 IPCs.
The best way for victory for CP is to clink Russia out of the game as soon as possible to eliminate the income disadvantag or even more likely get the upper hand economically yourself. If you force it by pushing agressively east and play as best with what you have west (with marginal builds) then RR will most likely happen R4-6. Germany and/or A-H should have conquered Poland, the adjacent TTs and one other north of Moscow by transport. (ca. 14 IPCs). Germany is supposed to gain about 50 IPCs at that time, A-H 30 IPCs and the Ottomans might have hold their ground or get a little less. Overall it should be between 90 and 100 IPCs. In this case Allies would earn about 5 IPCs less. AND: Geographically they are on a disadvantage as much of their spending must have been gone on transports to bring troops. CPs just need to build them.

So you can oppose the allies by just building the units. YOu simply wait ti,ll the reinforcements of the east arrive for the decisive battle(s).

This IS the way for winning the game with the CPS!
Question is: Is there an equally viable STRAT B? Clink out Italy?

P.S.: For this STRAT A you (only) build 1 Surface Warship G1 if you have the feeling you need one. In R2 you build 2 transports (for Baltic Sea!)
      Besides that, don’t spend any German production on Navy!

What do you do about the large British armies in Karelia and Sevastopol waiting to take back Russia when you move your victorious troops slowly west?

First, let me say that the new rule (Western Allies conquering Russian TTs) is nonsense!

Ok, now to your questions:
In both CP victories Russia was forced into RR R5 with 5 Russian TTs conquered by an G-AH-OT-East Strategy.
So there ARE no massive UK troops neither in Karelia nor in Sevastopol.

Here is the getgo:
A-H: 5 Art, 1 Fighter
MOVE:
-> ALL Trieste into Serbia and take 1 additional Art (or 2) from Hungary to assure it is an immediate wipeout.
-> Rest Hungary and ALL Galicia into Rumania for an immediate wipeout (cannot be countered by RUS next round!)
-> Move ALL Austria units into Galicia
-> Take 1 Art from Tyrolia, load it on transport and unload in Venice for a 2 hit/1 casualty amphinbious assault.
-> Leave enough troops in Tyrolia for an appropiate change if Venice feels to attack. 1 Inf to Vienna.(otherwise all built Art would be lost! :evil: and the rest into Trieste!
-> Bohemia depends on how you handle Switzerland. (but goal is to move as many units as possible into Galicia!)
(You will see all this is an immensely powerful move!)

G1: 3 Inf, 5 Art, 1 Fighter (alternative: 1 CR if you cannot resist! :wink:)
Obligatory: ALL German ships wipe out the British Fleet!
-> You will get 1 mine hit, most likely a sub and then 2 hits which results in Germany remaining with 1 damaged DR (can we say dreadnoughts?), 2 CR, 2 Subs
(maybe if the opponent is lucky only 1 Sub).
-> Most important thing: Fleet is unattackable by the 1 French DR or RUS DR and at least a temporary threat even as is!
-> MOVE ALL from Prussia and Silesia and the fighter into Poland! (wipe out what is left there by the Russians)
-> In the West depending on Switzerland again attack either Holland, Belgium and Lorraine or Holland, Belgium and Switzerland!
(Switzerland from Alsace and Munich with enough units that it is uncounterable. Leave enough that Alsace is not interesting for France to attack.)

After those 2 turns you stand KILLER!
So you can figure out the rest.

Note 1: Don’t play bungee jumping here and there with the Ottomans! Be focused on the main objective! Build ground units solely to kill Russians and Brits who could reinforce Russia!! One exception: Attack the 2 Russian CRs R1. If you survive or both killed think about a transport - AND ONLY THEN!

Note:2 Germany builds 2 (maybe 3) transports R2!

Good luck!

I agree it is nonesense, but I will try out your scenario.

The only system that really makes any sense in post revolution Russia is a civil war with Russian factions on each side.

I won’t go that far but in a more complex game it would certainly be the best!

Well, I still think it could actually be less complex in practice than the forcefields and Commisars of the official rules as they stand.

In effect all that happens is that some of the Russians break away from the Allies and become a new Central Power. Simple really.

At least in reality it was not that simple!
The peace was a very fragile thing and only their own weakness in the beginning of the RR prevented the Bolsheviks from attacking weak German garrisons.
If the war would have lasted longer or the Bolsheviks had performed better/faster against the Whites this could plausibly have happened! It was an imminent threat causing the Germans to leave strong garrisons behind. At the core, as Russians, they were hostile to Germany.

In a game Bolsheviks must not be a new CP faction which can operate in CPs interest or even combatting with them!

Hey, its my first time posting but ive been reading these forums for a while. Im about 5 games deep and its definitely a challenge playing as the CP, but it seems to me like a lot of people might be calling the games too early. Ive noticed that the initial axis bubble seems to “pop” around turn 5 or 6, but if you grabbed up enough money and forced the RR, you should be able to get a decent force together on the western front and make another go at france. makes for a long long game though…

@xxstefanx:

First, let me say that the new rule (Western Allies conquering Russian TTs) is nonsense!

Ok, now to your questions:
In both CP victories Russia was forced into RR R5 with 5 Russian TTs conquered by an G-AH-OT-East Strategy.
So there ARE no massive UK troops neither in Karelia nor in Sevastopol.

Here is the getgo:
A-H: 5 Art, 1 Fighter
MOVE:
-> ALL Trieste into Serbia and take 1 additional Art (or 2) from Hungary to assure it is an immediate wipeout.
-> Rest Hungary and ALL Galicia into Rumania for an immediate wipeout (cannot be countered by RUS next round!)
-> Move ALL Austria units into Galicia
-> Take 1 Art from Tyrolia, load it on transport and unload in Venice for a 2 hit/1 casualty amphinbious assault.
-> Leave enough troops in Tyrolia for an appropiate change if Venice feels to attack. 1 Inf to Vienna.(otherwise all built Art would be lost! :evil: and the rest into Trieste!
-> Bohemia depends on how you handle Switzerland. (but goal is to move as many units as possible into Galicia!)
(You will see all this is an immensely powerful move!)

G1: 3 Inf, 5 Art, 1 Fighter (alternative: 1 CR if you cannot resist! :wink:)
Obligatory: ALL German ships wipe out the British Fleet!
-> You will get 1 mine hit, most likely a sub and then 2 hits which results in Germany remaining with 1 damaged DR (can we say dreadnoughts?), 2 CR, 2 Subs
(maybe if the opponent is lucky only 1 Sub).
-> Most important thing: Fleet is unattackable by the 1 French DR or RUS DR and at least a temporary threat even as is!
-> MOVE ALL from Prussia and Silesia and the fighter into Poland! (wipe out what is left there by the Russians)
-> In the West depending on Switzerland again attack either Holland, Belgium and Lorraine or Holland, Belgium and Switzerland!
(Switzerland from Alsace and Munich with enough units that it is uncounterable. Leave enough that Alsace is not interesting for France to attack.)

After those 2 turns you stand KILLER!
So you can figure out the rest.

Note 1: Don’t play bungee jumping here and there with the Ottomans! Be focused on the main objective! Build ground units solely to kill Russians and Brits who could reinforce Russia!! One exception: Attack the 2 Russian CRs R1. If you survive or both killed think about a transport - AND ONLY THEN!

Note:2 Germany builds 2 (maybe 3) transports R2!

Good luck!

Â

I’ve tried this scenario before. First off al, if you land on venice, the 2 art on venice will destroy your landing canon. There is nothing stopping italy from attacking Trieste and thus forcing you to counterattack, using vital troops from the eastern front. The rest is pretty good, i forced Russia in RR in turn 4/5 I (can’t remember precisely). But Britain crushed Ottomans and French were pretty good as well  but that doesn’t matter for this topic. It is indeed the best way to crush the russians the fastest.

Thx for trying it!
And thx too for agreeing it is the best way!  :-)

One little correction: It has to be 1 A-H Inf unloading into Vienna, of course.

One little remark: R2 Germany builds 1 transport. (maybe, but this would be max. 2)

@xxstefanx:

Thx for trying it!
And thx too for agreeing it is the best way!  :-)

One little correction: It has to be 1 A-H Inf unloading into Vienna, of course.

One little remark: R2 Germany builds 1 transport. (maybe, but this would be max. 2)

i planned the same thing. when doing that, germany needs to aid to exploit the situation. but biggest problem is italy. the can ravage AH. what do you do against italy? Because, you need a lot f figs in ukraine too…

@xxstefanx:

-> In the West depending on Switzerland again attack either Holland, Belgium and Lorraine or Holland, Belgium and Switzerland!
(Switzerland from Alsace and Munich with enough units that it is uncounterable. Leave enough that Alsace is not interesting for France to attack.)

Sorry for the n00b question but why an attack on Holland? Cost probably 2 inf (6 IPCs) and a gain of 2 IPCs. Doesn’t seem cost effective. is it a kind of strategic position?

I agree Holland is a bad choice, since you need those 2 troops in defence against France r2. Belgium and Poland are the only two landattacks Germany should make r1. I agree that Germany has to wipe out the british Atlantic fleet though.

As for AH, going hard against Russia is a must, but not in the way described above. First of all you need to attack Italy in Venice witha atleast a 10/2 (Inf/Art) and perhaps even a 12/2. Wipe out Rumania with 12/4(or 14/4) and make a 6/2 attack against Serbia (You will get it worst case in r2). Stack all units you can in Galicia, save 4 you wanna move into Trieste.

The AH fleet however is a hard one. In my opinion you wanna make an all out attack against the italiens (at bad odds). Reason is you cant do anything else with it. If you succeed the french will need to use its fleet against AH r1 which means they cant move it into the atlantic against Germany as they would like to.

I once built an extra Dread on AH1 just for fun. The entente player freaked out and Italy wasted all it’s IPC that run on it’s own dread. The two forces then proceeded to sit there and stare at eachother the entire game…and then the Austrian tanks rolled into Rome.

Moral of the story: Do crazy things and you’ll obviously win.