What should UK do with India?

Subs and Planes. Subs absorb losses as fodder. Its the best solution to keep UK from building anything and to keep USA from landing troops

@DoManMacgee Hi DMM & thanks for the response… Really appreciate that these forums have experienced players who weigh in on things. It was OOB with a 12 bid.
That’s pretty much what Japan did - eliminate the threats and take back the 2 islands as advantageously as possible while still consolidating the fleet. I was just surprised how long it then took for Japan to have any pressure westward. India, in spite of losing 2 men on the initial Kwangtung foray, stayed around for quite a while (minimal investment for a KGF).
What helped, no doubt, was that Russia traded unfavourably in the initial Caucasus strafe (dice game, lost 3 inf to Germany’s 2, and took W Russia at odds) and the Germans (rather than push hard back immediately), decided to save the Med fleet with a carrier. This made the Egypt / Africa game interesting, but maybe a different buy on G1 and the Germans win sooner. Always tough to say.
But, as many have pointed out here, the Axis have such a strong start in this game it was nice to have a hotly contested battle!

@theskeindhu For the Pacific, what I like to do it bait out elements of the IJN by sending loaded transports at Borneo/DEI/Philippines on suicide missions. The TTs are going to die in all likelihood, but if the opponent overextends you can punish them for it, and if they lack TTs they won’t get the islands back right away, which gives you some healthy income/slows Japan down for a few turns. Even if they have TTs, you can usually sink them with your Carrier FTRs + 1-2 SUBs. This forces them to buy a few more TTs/spend effort cleaning up your SUBs, which distracts them from India/Moscow. Every small distraction helps. 1-2 INF can swing a battle’s odds dramatically in the favor of one side over the other.

I’m fairly consistent on J1, and like to expand transport capacity first. On the other hand, if the destroyer and transport survive in sz61, the need isn’t as pressing, since Japan can’t really use more than 3 transports effectively on J2 for shucking anyway (you got the dudes on the home island, and the dudes in the Philippines usually, but beyond that you have to start buying ground to set up your shuckd). If Japan gets a pass in sz61, that’s 15 ipcs they don’t have to spend on a transport and destroyer fodder for the IJN in the first round. This might have me considering the J1 factory spam, or some kind of fleet expansion to shore things up.

Trading Japanese fighters for Allied ships in the first round can be rather dicey sometimes. But once you’ve seen the sz53 play, and figured out how the carrier rules works, many people like to hit pearl. It’s a bit gamey, and does put your bomber and surviving fighter somewhat out of position for a round, but the payoff is solid.

I think the dilemma with Japan is that, if you work the Allies too hard at the outset, and just totally crush them, this has a way of cementing the KGF in the opponents mind, and the KGF endgame is more dangerous for the Axis overall than the KJF endgame. So its a bit of a balancing act. Considered purely from the perspective of a self-interested Japan, you should do everything you can to beat back the Allies and sink their ships at every opportunity, but from the perspective of the Axis team as a whole, it might be better to draw the Allies into to a protracted Pacific war that it’s fairly easy for Japan to manage defensively. If the Allies are spending the majority of their money vs the Pacific, as opposed to Atlantic, the likelihood of a rapid German conquest of Moscow increases. This is really the only reason I can think of for letting the Americans escape at Pearl, otherwise picking off that fighter in sz53 just seems like sound strategy for the trade.

Some of this probably comes down to knowing your opponent, whether they are likely to concede at the fall of Moscow, or if they’re the sort who will play on into the deep endgame. If its just a matter of Japan holding out until G cracks the center, a dramatic pacific game can be enjoyable. Its really up to Japan whether they want to allow this as a possibility. The ball is in their court, whether they want to slam into the other guy’s nose as soon as the whistle blows, or just dribble and look fancy with it, like a GlobeTrotter, to taunt them into a long brawl! haha

The pressure of destroying the combined UK fleet in sz30 is pretty intense. All the targets right there, in reach on J1, primed for the slaughter! haha I think most players would be hard pressed not to take the bait. But the problem is whether you can actually spring enough of a trap out of thing to make the UK sacrifice worth it?

I like a Russian bomber on balance, and the sz61 strike is a pretty wild gambit (risks the whole bid in one attack, but could be very decisive if it works). Usually I see it used against Germany on the eastern front instead of Japan, but at least you got an option if you go for the Red Bomber. OOB and its pretty hard for Russia to have much of an impact on any potential KJF. The set up seems all UK oriented OOB.
:-D

The best plays I’ve seen KJF-wise, (just like the best KGFs), usually involve a UK bid of some sort. The Brits are balancing on the razors edge in 1942.2, and there are a lot of ways to screw the Axis openings if you’ve got another UK sub at the ready. Which is one of the reasons I like to give the bid to the Russians instead.

No, YG.
The US doesn’t really have the money to do that.

@Black_Elk:

For Japan the most important route in a KGF oriented game is probably the sz 61 to Yunnan shuck. This is the shortest route from Tokyo to Moscow. With 4 transports you can shuck 8 ground to Yunnan every round, overland to Szechwan, then Kazakh. Basically if you can do this three rounds in a row, you’ll have enough fodder to start making the Russians sweat their capital. Just like the W. Allies on Berlin, the trick is not to move your Japanese ground forward too quickly and expose them in poor trades for 1 ipc territories, instead hold them back another round until they are stacked deep enough to defend themselves from Russian counter attacks. Szechwan is the optimal convergence spot for the main advance, and the push comes out of Yunnan via 61. This is to allow you to threaten India and Burma without having to put yourself out of position on Moscow. Later if you can launch into Africa or India uncontested thats great, but the main line is out of sz61 Szech push. Otherwise you leave the back door open to wiley Zhukov moves, with Russians running amock in Asia.

Because sz61 is such a clutch zone for Japan, most Allies I see will consider hitting the starting Japenese transport here a top priority, more important than the warships in sz37. You can cut the Japanese transport capacity in half during the opening round if you take your hit on sz61, and it can be done at relatively low risk for the payoff. I see most people jet out of Australia towards Brazil. The transport makes a less attractive target if you don’t fully load it. Just nabbing the dude off New Zealand for the ride. But again, I just don’t see the sz37 attack all that much on the bid lately. Even with a sub, or an extra Egypt fighter, it gets pretty dicey. I think the Allies are better served by keeping their forces in tact. You can still give Japan headaches, although full Pacific press is very hard if Japan has all their capital ships. Probably easier to face them in the med, if you don’t want to hammer 37 on a gambit. But KJF Pacific style games seem to always have a gambit of some sort, going all the way back (some risk you take as Allies to open up the game against Japan) and for that I like that sz37 exists. I just don’t use it as much, once the novelty wore off, and when you see that Europe is still the more attractive endgame on this map.

This specific point should be notice by all players.
This shortest road is truly a good pincer strategy against Russia.

Max Fighter buy on India is an interesting idea. I’ve had two more games since my posts the other day and will consolidate my experiences in the other thread I started. I did a KGF and a KJF both with slightly more success than my ‘traditional’ strategies.

I play with the same guy constantly so I think sometimes it puts me in a bubble in terms of seeing variations in Axis strategy. For instance, he’s never even tried Sea Lion.

The attack on SZ 37 typically succeeds with anywhere from a Cruiser + Fighter left, to Fighter only, to mutual destruction. A failure that leaves his Battleship, and I’d be tempted to surrender Round 1. Not something I’m proud of, but, Allied Round 1 is a precarious thing and adverse results with Russia or UK Naval efforts near India to me are unrecoverable. At least against this guy.

What he does Round 1 with Japan is he parks his transports in SZ 61, staging for a Round 3 or Round 4 take, out of range of Fighters on India. India has to follow the traditional retreat from Burma Round 1. So the 3 fighters, while providing defense power, will offer little in the way of threat to his Navy. I guess it’s nice that they can get to Russia next round, but, I can have Fighters in W. Russia in a single round from UK and that’s usually where I need them most anyway.

I should also add he is a very conservative player - he will never attack without overwhelming odds, whereas I’ll gamble routinely. So there’d never be a situation where he lands on India, my fighters survive, and hit his Navy. He simply wouldn’t attack if there were a chance of that. Similarly, his surviving transport in SZ 61 will be immediately reinforced and remain so, negating a Bomber zerg raid….

More thoughts about Allied fleets against this particular player in my other thread. Unless you’re talking about an Allied Fleet as in, INDIA building a naval fleet?

I will say, as to the rest, that there is a clear Russia Round 1 sequence of attacks that you mentioned in the other thread that absolutely must succeed, and also, Russia can’t lose West Russia for at least 4 rounds, offering plenty of time to convey Fighters over from UK, stop in W Russia , and continue on down to India. On balance, I’m not sure it changes things all that much to put the UK fighters there so early, since W. Russia shouldn’t seriously be threatened enough early on for it to matter. To compensate for 3 fighters round 1 India, you’d need a heavy ground force buy India round 2, especially if you’ve transported troops away to reinforce Africa etc…

Anyway let me lay out a few things in the other thread that may shed light on how I better managed India in both recent games…

@empulliam:

New on the forum, just curious as to what you all think about an opening move I use with UK pretty often. On the first turn, build a factory in India. I consider the UK pacific fleet pretty much useless against Japan, I say let US deal with it since they have the money, so i abandon it in favor of a land based strategy. I’ve seen people try building a factory in India where they move the one inf over from persia and pull the plane in from the carrier and try and defend it. The problem with that strategy is that if Japan wants India bad enough on the first turn, the math says they can take it. (They will lose some fighters, but having a factory on the mainland seems like a worthwhile trade). Here are my moves (only on the Pacific side) for turn one.

1. send the carrier in India to get the unprotected transport by Kwangtung.
2. Send the Australian sub to get the Japanese sub
3. Put 2 inf from Australia onto a transport and attack New Guinea (Not a huge part of the plan, but technically the math is in my favor)
4. Move inf from Persia into India
5. (here’s where things get dicey) send everything in India, plus the fighter from the carrier, into southeast Asia. Unless the Japan player catches on to what I’m doing, the first two units he allows to be killed will be the infantry there. I don’t really care so much about getting the plane, so unless i’m doing really well I just retreat after I destroy the ground units. This way, Japan has no ground units in range to capture the factory, and next turn I can reinforce it with 3 tanks, and from there just send ground units up the coast until Japan is kicked out of mainland Asia. Then I would use the factory to reinforce Russia from the East.

On the 1st Edition of 1942 this is almost suicidal because the Japanese player should focus everything on preparing to attack India from J2 onwards and he’ll be able to do so unless you commit the Soviets to defend the IC. Which is almost suicidal as well because Germany should also be pushing hard into Russia and it will usually mean that the Soviets will lose Caucasus.
You’re also leaving Africa to Germany if you follow this.