• haha my veiws on this are in my Sig ;)

  • '19 Moderator

    @F_alk:

    Over here gun control is very strict. You have to have a clean record, a reason for owning a gun, and a license of their use for certain cases, and very strict rules about which reason allows for which kind of weapon, and even then the choice of weapons is very limited. They have to meet very special conditions (no fully- or semi-automatic weapons, no more than three bullets in the clip for hunters.)

    What would happen if you listed on your application that your reason for needing a fire arm was for protection against the possible rise of a tyranical ruler who would impose laws limiting the the freedoms of your family and friends?

    Just curious.

  • '19 Moderator

    In case it wasn’t clear in that last post I am opposed to gun control laws. The only kind of gun control I aprove of is the kind where I control my guns. :) all 18 of them.


  • what guns do you own dertzfish?

  • '19 Moderator

    I have:
    1. Remington model 700 7mm Mag.
    2. Remington Super Express Magnum 12 Guage
    3. Stevens single 20 Guage
    4. Stevens .22/.410 over and under
    5. Stevens 30/30 Bolt action
    6. Stevens Double 20 Guage
    6. M1 Garand .306
    7. K98 8mm(1941 Issue)
    8. Winchester Model 70 .243 (Pre 64)
    9. Winchester 30/30 Lever action
    10. Winchester 30/30 Lever action (yes I own two of them)
    11. Hawkins .50 precussion muzzle loader
    12. Hawkins 12 Guage Muzzle loader
    13. MAC 90 7.62/39
    14. “Chipmunk” .22 Bolt action
    15. Colt Compact .45
    16. a 380 auto
    17. Ruger P85
    18. Walther P38

    I started to tell about each gun but it would take me to long, so if your interested in hearing about one let me know and I will tell you. they all mean something to me, and most have an interesting story.


  • Wow… you just made me envious. :wink:

    Good to see you again, Dzrt. :D

  • '19 Moderator

    When I was in college my roomate had about three times the number of guns I do. We modified a closit into a safe, man was that an awsome site.

    By the way, when are you going to get to Phoenix so I can get a game together for you? Its only an 8 hour drive :D


  • @dezrtfish:

    @F_alk:

    Over here gun control is very strict. You have to have a clean record, a reason for owning a gun, and a license of their use for certain cases, and very strict rules about which reason allows for which kind of weapon, and even then the choice of weapons is very limited. They have to meet very special conditions (no fully- or semi-automatic weapons, no more than three bullets in the clip for hunters.)

    What would happen if you listed on your application that your reason for needing a fire arm was for protection against the possible rise of a tyranical ruler who would impose laws limiting the the freedoms of your family and friends?

    Just curious.

    good heavens is that ever stupid.
    you’re preparing to take on the American army? Or the Mexican one? How about an Iraqi army?
    Canada is a little similar to Germany. We have on a per capita basis far fewer killings (murders and otherwise) than the U.S.
    I am all for the most control of guns possible. I do not believe that anyone should be allowed to possess a gun within city limits. I don’t have a problem with people carrying guns to hunt/for pests etc. At the same time, i can’t see why people living in a “civilized country” with appropriate police, government and military institutions need to carry firearms.


  • Becuase a 5 minutes response time isn’t always your best defense against someone trying to harm your family. :(


  • @Deviant:Scripter:

    Becuase a 5 minutes response time isn’t always your best defense against someone trying to harm your family. :(

    right
    that always happens - the old “i need a gun to defend my family” line. I need to find those stats that i’ve read saying that you’re far more likely to be killed with the gun you have than to actually use it to defend anything.


  • see CC, thats just the statistic I used to use to support my position in favor of gun control. however, Ive been reinformed that the statistics presented from those studies were skewed, failing to take into account all the necessary conditions, and not providing scientific results. the actual results, are much different, and combined with some other things, this convinced me to change my position.


  • I need to find those stats that i’ve read saying that you’re far more likely to be killed with the gun you have than to actually use it to defend anything.

    That is a false statement. It’s just something invented by the liberals that included children as “protecting the family.” Right… I love to see a 5 year old protecting his family… :-?


  • it also failed to take such things as people with a history of mental problems, or violence into account, among others


  • It’s funny. Every stabbing i’ve seen in the ER - the patients walked away from hospital within 2-5 days. Maybe half required exploratory surgery to deterimine any possible bowel penetration, the others didn’t even need a stitch. In every circumstance, the presence of a firearm in the vicinity could have chnaged things dramatically for these people. A cynic might say “oh well, these people are wastes of space and it would have been better if they had been wasted”. At the same time, a little alcohol can turn a little argument into an ambulance ride and a hospital stay if a knife is in the vicinity. A gun changes everything.
    Same thing with kids. They don’t nearly as often stab themselves to death as shoot themselves to death. And send me the news reports of the mass stabbings with multiple homicides.
    With regards to the “protecting the family with a gun” - of all of the 2-3 home invasions annually in this 700 000 berg, i don’t recall a gun being involved in them. At the same time, these typically target either old people, or younger people who are involved in organized crime to some extent.
    So if you have a family, you are supposedly storing your weapons responsibly with the ammo in a different location from your gun. How realistic is it that you will assemble your firearm in time to not get shot? In adition the presence of a firearm usually tends to accellerate a situation in terms of violence. Ok, if i were in South Africa, then you have me - i’d also be tempted to sleep with a firearm in the bedside table as well as one in my wife’s. But really - is America as dangerous as South Africa?


  • Another thing:
    Why is it that many of the same kinds of people who believe that America should invade other countries to prevent them from having weapons capable of killing many people from a distance believe that they should be allowed to own weapons capable of killing many people from a distance?


  • So if you have a family, you are supposedly storing your weapons responsibly with the ammo in a different location from your gun. How realistic is it that you will assemble your firearm in time to not get shot? In adition the presence of a firearm usually tends to accellerate a situation in terms of violence. Ok, if i were in South Africa, then you have me - i’d also be tempted to sleep with a firearm in the bedside table as well as one in my wife’s. But really - is America as dangerous as South Africa?

    Ummm… by “different location” it could mean in the same room. As for South Africa and the United States, the difference might not be that great in city areas with a large % of crime.


  • @TG:

    So if you have a family, you are supposedly storing your weapons responsibly with the ammo in a different location from your gun. How realistic is it that you will assemble your firearm in time to not get shot? In adition the presence of a firearm usually tends to accellerate a situation in terms of violence. Ok, if i were in South Africa, then you have me - i’d also be tempted to sleep with a firearm in the bedside table as well as one in my wife’s. But really - is America as dangerous as South Africa?

    Ummm… by “different location” it could mean in the same room. As for South Africa and the United States, the difference might not be that great in city areas with a large % of crime.

    i’d suggest there is a fairly impressive difference.
    In the US you may live and never be touched by a rape (at least a rape by someone you do not know). In SA it is impossible. Life is very cheap there.


  • I don’t know the exact facts of that, but point taken.


  • In the US you may live and never be touched by a rape (at least a rape by someone you do not know). In SA it is impossible. Life is very cheap there.

    Im sure there is a difference, but Id like to see a source, saying it is impossible to not be touched by a rape. also, (this is coming from me, i dont have a source) ive never heard of a rape conducted at gun point (though that doesnt mean it doesnt occur of course), and the victims are obviously (at least in the vast majority of cases) women, who are less likely to own a firearm, let alone have one on them, since they often take place on the street or somewhere away from their home, where the gun would most likely be, so its not really applicable.

    Why is it that many of the same kinds of people who believe that America should invade other countries to prevent them from having weapons capable of killing many people from a distance believe that they should be allowed to own weapons capable of killing many people from a distance?

    I cant speak for everyone, but Id say that most of them are talking about WMD’s, artillery, ICBM, or other extreme long-range weapons, not a handgun or rifle.

    A gun changes everything.

    This is because a gun is so easy to get. if you were going to commit an armed crime, would you use a gun or a knife? a gun obviously, because its more effective than a knife, a gun is a better weapon than a knife ( :wink: mike, lol), and its so easy to get a hold of, why not use it? so make guns harder to get, i have no problem with that, but not impossible. and if a criminal cant get a gun, but a homeowner has one, whos going to back down, the gun owner, or the knife owner?

    They don’t nearly as often stab themselves to death as shoot themselves to death.

    Granted, but in the case of suicides, this is usually because if they dont act quickly, they will lose their nerve, and to them, its easier to pull a trigger than jab a knife into themselves (if i were going to kill myself, i would think the same way).
    In the case of accidental death, this is because of careless gun owners, either storing a weapon loaded, or allowing their children to gain access to the gun and the ammo, without properly teaching them the safety necessary.

    But really - is America as dangerous as South Africa?

    1. you are in canada.
    2. yes, in some areas, more dangerous in some
    3. for example, in Operation: Desert Storm, when the Iraqis launched Scuds at the Saudi Arabian City of Riyadh, even if you were in the city proper, you were statistically more likely to be attacked crossing any street in NYC (New York City) than be affected by the large missiles approaching your position. Just something to think about

    “Firearms are used three to five times more often to stop crimes than to prevent them” -FBI Uniform Crime Reports, Crime in the United States, annual reports


  • @cystic:

    Another thing:
    Why is it that many of the same kinds of people who believe that America should invade other countries to prevent them from having weapons capable of killing many people from a distance believe that they should be allowed to own weapons capable of killing many people from a distance?

    Umm, we’re talking chemical and biological weapons here, possibly even nuclear. That presents an entirely more dangerous potential for human casualties than any firearm you can show me. They can’t even be compared with each other using the same line of reasoning.

    Besides, we don’t stop everyone else from having WMD’s. We try to stop crazy & dangerous people from having WMD’s. Just as we try to stop crazy & dangerous people from acquiring guns.

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