Axis victory

fanofbond,

Are you referring to Alpha 3 rules, Out of the Box Rules or?

It makes a difference, you see.  OOB Japan’s going to get India every time because of a Major Complex in Malaya, but you can’t do that in Alpha 3 rules (or Alpha 2) because Malaya is not Japanese territory - it’s conquered land.

In Alpha 2 and Alpha 3 the Americans can get pretty big in the Pacific and you can really do a lot more than they are given credit for.  I’ve seen Japan reduced to a smoldering island by round 8 numerous times (mainly by being in charge of the Mighty MO and leading the way myself!) I just never see Tokyo conquered - like EVER.

for usa the balanced pacific approach seems to work well in dice games. usa from gibraltar has triple threat, uk, europe and africa. usa spending  30 ipc on naval every turn for pacific ain’t so bad, you only need 1 or 2 transports really and you are a threat… link up with the anzac squad. india should last at least 5 rounds, there comes a point where u don’t leave india. if germany does london, russia should have plenty of breathing room for awhile depending on how many german units survived.

as far as axis goes. germany really only has a few choices, russia or london. italy can do 3 different things, go for africa, try to bombard russians after busting turkey, or provide ground forces for french territories. Japan pretty much goes for china and india then turns attention to ANZAC.

If you go all out europe with USA there comes a point in the game where india’s demise is certain and u can see it coming. then you have to roll out pacific or axis gets the victory conditions necessary on that half of the map.

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victory conditions aren’t one half of the map anymore, I believe. So you can still race for europe before japan surges past india , china and soviet far east.

Last time I checked it’s still by map - COW.

Allies:  Take Tokyo or Berlin
Axis: Take 8 European Victory Cities or 6 Pacific Victory Cities

If I am going Pacific, it’s because Sea Lion did not happen first of all.  Secondly, I’m going hard Pacific with 80% or more going for warships.  I want 4 transports and assorted ground units (5 infantry, 2 artillery, armor) on them and I need units for holding Alaska as well probably.

I’m happiest with 4 battleships and 4 carriers, (dds, cas, sss etc as well of course) but don’t care how that combo comes together.

Also as Japan, don’t start war before london is taken, unless USA is an idiot that did not setup to reinforce it if war were to occur, then by all means kick it off.

@Cow:

Also as Japan, don’t start war before london is taken, unless USA is an idiot that did not setup to reinforce it if war were to occur, then by all means kick it off.

Not always an option.  If I want Calcutta, odds are good I have to attack on round 2.  I’ve been playing around trying to get a round 4 sack of Calcutta but there’s not enough resources to pull it off, unless India does something really wrong.

Depends who you play with Jenn, this is alpha, not the final rules. Change whatever you want to test new stuff out, new gameplay.

Anyway Jenn if germany sets up for sea lion your japan is likely to fight china only till london is taken or the americans land fighters/bombers inside making the battle from 90% to slightly below a coinflip. you always talk of taking london and india on round 3, but the people I play with don’t give those opportunities even with your “leet” strategy. sarcasm here.
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most of the time you get an ultimatum, calcutta pushes out with USA set up to reinforce UK / sink sea lion. Those games can get crazy sometimes. Especially if axis go for both.

allies are trickier to play as it requires planning and counter strategy. Axis act first with allies setting up in response.

I believe garg plays this on low luck, have to ask him what he starts bidding down to.

Actually, Cow, if I set up Sea Lion, I usually set up Calcutta as well so that they both fall on Round 3.  It means America comes in the war on Round 2 instead of Round 3 and Russia comes in on Round 3 instead of Round 4, but with 45 IPC worth of land permanently taken from the hands of the Allies, it’s worth it. (No, I am not saying they go and take it all, I am saying the allies cannot collect that money.)

So round 3, you aren’t taking london, because usa flies some stuff in there and uk bought all guys for itself.  India sees ya coming falls back to calcutta. Guess you aren’t taking london.

@Cow:

So round 3, you aren’t taking london, because usa flies some stuff in there and uk bought all guys for itself.  India sees ya coming falls back to calcutta. Guess you aren’t taking london.

Unless I missed something very obvious, even if the war starts on round 2, the absolute most America could get to London is a few bombers (4) with defense value 1.  To do this they have to buy 3 bombers for E. USA (C. USA cannot make it).  They can then fly them to London on Round 2 when they are at war.  That is the sum total of what you can bring.  Since Germany already has 93% odds if England brings every possible unit home, these 4 bombers are not going to make a whole big difference really, it might drop the odds to 89% (assuming 1% decrease for each strategic bomber added) but cost America a round’s worth of purchases and 4 strategic bombers.

As for Calcutta, if you drop back I take India as light as I can and stage for a second take if you try to liberate.  I’ve seen this ploy already and it’s probably worse for India than it is for Japan.  What did work okay (considering Calcutta was lost permanently and Japan won the game by VCs) is retreating the units through the Middle East and using them to hold Egypt.

are you playing low luck or dice? and bombers inside of UK makes a big difference due to cannon fodder factor. it is also why people bid 3 for allies to place an infantry there so usa doesn’t have buy so many bombers.

also usa starts with a bomber so you don’t have to buy 3 bombers, though some people do (the undecided on which direction to go types like the bomber buy for east usa as they can move over to the pacific side with ease)

@Cow:

are you playing low luck or dice? and bombers inside of UK makes a big difference due to cannon fodder factor. it is also why people bid 3 for allies to place an infantry there so usa doesn’t have buy so many bombers.

ADS.  LL is too flaky for me, I don’t like that 2 infantry and 1 strategic bomber always wins over 1 defending infantry.  Other people can play it if they want, it’s not BAD, but I don’t like it.

With +5 American Strategic Bombers in England, my calculators show 91.3% odds for Germany to win.  Instead of 93.7% odds with 9 tanks and 10 aircraft they, only have 5 tanks and all aircraft.  So your 60 IPC worth of bombers bought you +4 armor killed.  I don’t think this is a good trade.  BTW, this is the absolute best you can bring to the fight including maximum British, French and American units.

If Germany loses 1 strategic bomber due to bombing raids (there’s 67% chance of losing a bomber or tactical bomber) the odds change too: 87.5% for Germany with 3 armor, 9 aircraft remaining.

This calculator won’t run LL battles.

@Cow:

also usa starts with a bomber so you don’t have to buy 3 bombers, though some people do (the undecided on which direction to go types like the bomber buy for east usa as they can move over to the pacific side with ease)

To get maximum defense, yes you do have to buy 3 bombers.  You cannot get any unit except Bombers to England between America 2 and Germany 3 because America is not at war on USA 1.

4 Strategics purchased + 1 on hand (numbers I used) because it was the absolute most that you could get. (52 IPC starting - 48 IPC for bombers, leaves 4, you cannot get a 5th bomber then.  Nothing you buy on round 2 can get to England before Germany 3.)

that is more than enough to hold london. Also depends on what happened to uk’s canada transport, because even in low luck games they sometimes survive.

for both low luck and dice 3-5 bombers in london is big. they might roll a 1 and get a kill and they give the other units on london more time to fire. You should run the calc
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if the transport on UK makes it to canada, UK can take a nuetral territory and usa bombers move 5 to sink german naval and land on the nuetral.

So bomber buys are really good for USA round 1. It’s standard play to buy a few. I don’t know many people that don’t.

Even with the bombers you have less than 1 in 6 chance to survive in London!

SZ 106 hit with 3 submarines
SZ 109 hit with 2 submarines and all available aircraft

3 Submarines vs 1 Destroyer:  98.5% odds.  In Low Luck that’s 100% odds

the odds change in the other battles, as it depends on your opener, most people do 2 subs. if you send 3 subs there you could possibly put other battles at risk. (I mean you are also trying not to lose air units elsewhere right?)

Even in worse case scenario. with all available units in uk adding 3-5 bombers is great. Run that calc. then look at what could go wrong in G1 in dice and ll.

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after you do that you can make a fair assessment. Also 5 bombers is not freaking 2% better odds, it is way more than that.

Hey Frontovik,
We have played out games after an “official” victory was declared by the Axis.  Usually the Axis will get the required VCs by round 8 or 9.  So we play on and the game stretches out to 19 or 20 rounds and usually results in an Allied victory.  In most cases, even though the Axis manage to get all the VCs required, the Allies are still making more money. Â

One reason is that Japan had too much trouble in the Pacific and more or less was biding time for the Germans to get the 8 of 11 in Europe.  Once we decide to play the game out, Japan ends up getting pounded pretty good and Germany can’t really do anything to help them.  USA usually goes into the Med and takes out Italy after that.  Between USA and UK, Germany seems to be bouncing back and forth to answer threats while UK units from Calcutta manage to sneak up and liberate Russia.  After that, it’s just a matter of time.