How to play Japan!?

Thing with Transport strategy is you always start back at Japan. If you build IC, you troops (well, at least 3 of them per IC) are quicker within China. You can also start new ships (including transport) in southern area. I usally build my first IC at J1 (Kiangsu or Manchuria). After that it depends on USA, how heavy they build in Pacific board, but second IC will be Kwangtung or FIC. I might put a third one in Malaya (any of previous without IC), depending on the game.

I use IC for mainland (China/Russia/UK) campaign and transport for Pacific (islands) campaign. I feel the mix of the is the better strategy. But I haven’t tested without IC yet… since I’m succesful with the mixed strategy, I keep using it.  :-D

I agree with Bruce. I do all the same things except I don’t put an industry in kwangtung. I try to put my second industry (if US allows me to by building some in atlantic) in Malaya. A lot of transports have three major problems. 1. you need to defend them with warships taking them away from the best spot to be, say phillipines, carolines, or off japan. 2. Tranports don’t produce men on the mainland, and as Bruce said they have to end up in sea zone 6 to pick up any men. 3. building transports means you will need to build men to fill these extra transports on turn 2. This means that later in the game when you need to fill your transports up you will have to build men on japan meaning less warships you can produce to keep up in the naval race with the US. Once the naval race is lost enough that US and anzac can land in the phillipines and hold, then I just don’t see how Japan has a chance.

Usually I put myself 2 objectives with Japan. Other objectives are worked only after the first two are done. Because if you spread your forces too much you end up loosing.

My favorite way of playing Japan is:

Securing Indonesia, Attacking China and Russia, with the airforce in between the two nations.

I attack Russia to see their reaction, If they push back I’ll keep getting territories with the starting manchuria and korea force backupped with few planes.

While securing Indonesia I keep investing heavily in my fleet, in order to lock down the US.

This will usually buy me at least 7-8 turns in wich if America hadn’t invested anything in Euro I consider it a big success. If America doesn’t invest heavily in the Pacific I will try to win there, but in a slowly, steady way, with 2 minor ICs in FIC and Malaya taking care of India.

@MightyPol:

In all games with Japan, i’ve never really succeed with them. What is the ultimate strategy that you guys use with Japan, what do I need to do in order to become a beast at this game? :)

I didn’t bother to read the rest of this thread so I hope I’m not repeating anybody, and I don’t often post here or spend too much time reading so if this old hat or common then forgive me, I’m ignorant to the Interwebz ultimate win strat.

BUT I always open the same way. J1 I build a Naval Base in Hainan (and 2 research but this is discretionary). I then move every ship the IJN has except for 3 destroyers and the 2 subs to SZ36. I leave a defense force of 4inf in both Manchuria and Korea in case the Soviets leave a big force, but I will reduce that number over the game as they do if they pull them back to Moscow/Timguska. I never invade the Soviet Union in the Amur region as it takes up too much resources and yields little benefit. I instead focus heavily with my starting units into China. Don’t take French Indo-China either. Just attack Chahar, Anhwe, Hunan, and of course Yunnan. Use as much of your air power here as possible. Landing all of it that you can either in Kwangsi or SZ36 on your carriers. Load all 3 transports and move them to SZ36 as well, dumping them on Kwangsi until you reload them on J2.

At the end of J1 I have 3 Destroyers off Japan, they will serve as blockers for the US on later turns. The 2 subs are off of the Caroline Is. to serve as I see fit later on, they can often cause some kind of mischief. The rest of the IJN are in SZ36, the carriers loaded, the transports empty, and the land units in Kwangsi until their pickup the following turn. All the air should be in Kwangsi or on carriers in SZ36, there can be a few stragglers around China after your J1 push into China, but get them there by J2! You should collect 40 IPCs, 26, +4 for the 4 Chinese territories you took, and +10 for your NO of not being at war with the Allies (aside from China ofc)

On J2 build whatever you like but I prefer a Small Factory in Manchuria, (much more effecient than going all transports, but always have a few around). I also will build an Air Base in Kwangsi as a form of insurance in case things don’t go well this turn. I then attack more in China using the Air force to make all the battles last only 1 round, thereby taking as few casualties as possible, but also ensuring I land every last air unit I have in Kwangsi or on the carriers. Next I non-combat move all the ships from SZ36 (and your new Naval Base) 3 spaces to SZ39 just off India. The Allies can’t block this move because you’re not yet at war (at least I doubt it lol) You don’t attack on J2 you just move the whole fleet next to India for some nice sight seeing. You should have 2 battleships, 2 cruisers, a Destroyer, 3 loaded carriers and 3 loaded transports (ideally with 3inf, 2 art, and 1 arm, but 4inf, 1art, 1arm is also acceptable). Now your plan should be obvious to the allies (you’re going to take India by J3) but I bet until you make the move they will assume you are trying some crazy sack Australia strat… This will also through them off and likely many of their units will already be off of India moving up the Burma Road or towards Egypt. Lastly don’t forget to Non Combat Move a destroyer to SZ25 to block the US fleet buildup on Hawaii from hitting you too soon in Japan.

On J3 you attack India! If the Allied player is caught totally unawares by this you can hit India with 4 shore bombards from your fleet, 6 land units, and every single plane Japan starts with (you should not have lost any yet!!!). I don’t care what the UK player builds, he cannot stop this, he can only make it more painful for you to take. But likely they will be caught at least somewhat unawares and you will take it while only losing a few planes. Note it might be neccessary to hit any combat units they have adjacent to India with excess planes if there is a force substantial enough to take India back after you sack it. I’ve done this before with 1 transport and some planes on occasion.

There are few problems with this if the UK player is clever. He could declare war first on UK1 and thereby block your naval movement. If he does it throws this out the window, but you’re in a prime position to fan out and take all the DEI without bringing the US into the war on J2!!! OR they might declare war on UK2 to try to re-take Yunnan and thereby prevent you from having a landing zone for your fighters. Even if they do this you can still attack with 14 planes. that’s 6 fighters, 6 tac bombers and 2 strats. This is done by 3 fighters, 3 tacs, and the 2 strats taking off from Kwangsi and the fighters and tacs will land on the carriers while the 2 strats go back to kwangsi. Then the 3 tacs and 3 fighters from the carriers hit india and then land in kwangsi. So by them switching places they can double their attacking air units. Any excess air that can’t hit india from Kwangsi cuz they’d have nowhere to land can hit any counter attacking force in Burma instead. If there isn’t one they can retake Yunnan and/or go into China. Also take FiC on J3. And lastly, since its J3, if you can snipe any US targets of opportunity with your subs and destroyers, or have to take SZ25 back from them, do it since they will get their money this turn anyways.

There you have it. By J3 you should have wiped out the UK in the pacific, hold India, and have a working factory in Manchuria. China should be near death and you should be ready to churn out tanks to go into Russia via China and the Middle East by J4. (I find a mix of tanks out of India, and Mech Inf in Manchuria is best as its cheaper) The IJN should sweep back and take the DEI on J4 and J5 and your economy should explode. Then just spar with the US in the pacific and avoid a major confrontation, delaying them while hammering Russia until Germany can Take Moscow (if your German player is good this will happen around G6 or G7 at the latest, and you will be well into Russia by then helping)

#ZehKaiser

what if after you move all your fleet in India’s seas, during J2, the american player moves all his fleet 1 sea zone from sz6?

Excellent post ZehKaiser.

I’ve look at it and yes sounds a strong strat. I’m, personnaly, too conservative type to risk it tho. If it fails, taking India I mean, than Japan is quite fragile. Without strong economy, most of is fleet far away and transport a long way from land units.

But I feel it will succeed very often. So the big question is : Can Japan return in Pacific quick enough to face a strong USA. Sounds like so. With Naval base in Calcutta and z36. The other question, can Japan hold Calcultta.

Again, a stong Japan move… I would so like play Allies against this strat, a very good challenge I think.

I’d like to play the Allies against this strat as well. Especially if he think I’m inept enough to think a fleet sitting off my coast would be a crazy strategy to capture Australia.

@Noll:

#ZehKaiser

what if after you move all your fleet in India’s seas, during J2, the american player moves all his fleet 1 sea zone from sz6?

I don’t see this as a real problem. USA can’t have an amphibious attack strong enough to take Japan. As for navy, I never (ever) saw a USA able to hold in z6 long… with Japan’s planes, I would just load 2 fresh carrier in z6 along with few DD (as ZEH said, kept behind) and additionnal 3 planes in Japan. It should do it to repel USA Navy.

In the worst case scenario:

a) either china or uk take back Yunnan during turn#2
b) India reinforced greatly starting from UKP1.
c) A dd is kept in the sz to prevent the bombing.

What would be the odds of taking India with 6 ground forces and 14 planes?

Then there’s another question: Will you be able to defend from US after you lost so many planes? (I assume you’re going to lose a LOT of them in this case scenario)

Two rounds of purchases without NOs (Having not declared war)

34 ipcs of infantry =
+11 infantry
Persia in the “way back” with 2 infantry in exchange of the one activating it:
+1 infantry
Burma
+2 infantry +1fighter

so that’s:

22 infantry
1 artillery
2 aagun
1 tac.bomber
2 fighters

Japan would have:

3 infantry
3 artillery
2 bombers
6 tac.bombers
6 fighters

With the battle simulator this is a 4% win odds for Japan against a 96% one for India. This in my opinion means that you can do this elaborate J3 India crush only if your opponent is careless, meaning the same opponent won’t fall for it twice.

Now let’s simulate what are Japan odds if he keeps Yunnan round#2.

This means if I remember correctly 10 fighters 8 tac.bombers 2 bombers

In this case Japan has a 55% win ratio, so in case of win with huge aerial losses. (Also the combat calculator doesn’t account the new AAs taking 2 more hits)

In the scenario you get India with this move, would you be able to recover the loss of the 90% (at very last) of your airforce?

It’s not an absolute theory and, as I said, I’m too conservative to do it. Anyhow, I see good in this strategy. To answer you Noll :

a. I think this will happen, this is why I consider only 14 planes (6 From z39 to KWA, 6 from KWA landing on 3AC, 2 SB)
b. True, but even with around 50 combat value (CV) for India, Japan can be succesful.
c. True, this is why I didn’t consider shore bombardement.

So Japan would have around 12CV with ground troops and 50CV with planes for a total of 62CV… which takes 10 units at first round… must have a very strong defence in Calcutta to resist another round of this!

For you other question, Japan has 7 more planes. As I said earlier post, 4 are on 2 carrier at z6 and 3 other planes in Japan itself. This alone is 30CV/11HP, add few DD left behind and few purchases and Japan is defended enough.

I agree with Zeh’s stratgey overall but with a few minor exceptions, as like you BigBad, I would be much more conservative with my forces.

The attacks on China are well placed and pretty much cannon at this point, but spot on all the same.

The naval base in sz36 is brilliant as well as concentrating your fleet with the transports here. It allows you to completely menace the south pacific and all of Japans traget victory and NO areas at once. It shows the allies that you mean bussiness down there, but keeps the true target a mystery.

The concentration on Yunnan is also excellent as outside of Shanghai its the only territory in China really worth holding on to (I know its only worth 1IPC but its worth 7IPC to China, with the NO and all). However there is where I would diverge from this plan. I would concentrate on building more transports and maybe a cruiser, instead of building the IC in Manchuria. I would play some-what reactionary to what Britian did, because as someone who plays Britian often, I have seen India been become quite the fortress, with a decent fleet and scrambling aircraft. I would also save the air-base for J3 to be placed on IndoChina after I take it. I would also try to position the subsequent transports so that they could take as much of the DEI and the Philippines as possible while that main body of the fleet goes for the water off India. Again it would depend on what the UK did, if they turtled in India, I would land in Burma and try to lure them out, if they moved into Burma to try and help China then I would still hit them there to try and destroy their main body of forces, or hit India depending on how well defended they left it.

I don’t know for sure, but I feel like any strong aversions to my post are from players who play many more games, and/or do lots of theory gaming, and/or play a lot of online A&A. I do none of those. I play a regular game with very good opponents every 3 weeks for real in person. I have tried this in a real life game 3 times and it has worked all three times, but all 3 times it has been against a different real life player as India. I find that if I played against Noll dozens of times on TripleA or something he would beat this as i just told him what I’d be doing, not to say he wouldn’t if I didn’t tell him.

BUT this strats strength and weakness comes from many more variables and contexts than I think Null is looking at. I feel as though he’s looking just at the battle in India and bad or worst case scenarios. If you take the whole game Global1940 mind you, not just Pacific, then all the players behave in certain ways, especially in games with 4+ players. Again, in a real world game, that you play with live opponents, who may have driven over an hour to get a game in and likely all have a new strat to try out based on performance in their last game…  So with that in mind you have to think about what the allied players and the UK player especially is thinking. Most of the time they are thinking (in our group at least) that they will fly their air over to Egypt. Move at least 1 land unit through the middle east to activate Persia and (our group) attack Iraq before the Italians ever get a chance to activate it. Then they send their one transport to slowly take DEI with ANZAC and then start a Infantry Push Mechanic of some kind one territory at a time up the Burma Road. Not all players do this, but many do, their larger focus being on Europe where in previous versions of Alpha London often fell, Egypt was important and Japan usually has players that play more conservative so a Calcutta crush is often later than Moscow… They tend to take it slow.

Also a lot of UK players don’t like the idea of starting the war in the Pacific, especially not on UK1 or UK2. If they do it might be a wrinkle, but if they don’t you’re still green. Then there’s losing Yunnan on turn 2. This can happen, but usually you are crushing China to the point where they cannot do it, and only a UK2 DoW on Japan can accomplish this. And if they do, thats a whole stack less that can retake India if you do pull it off.

As for the US concern, They can be a worry… However they’re not in a position to actually TAKE Japan. with only a handful loaded transports and maybe 6 planes they likely wont be able to crack that nut. You will have all of your starting land units minus 2 plus any builds. I recommend a few planes as the first 3 turns go by. Hopefully by you J4 purchase you’ll have India’s money as well as yours, that should deter or repel any US4 invasion of Japan. But what the US does is highly dependent on the game, the player, and all manner of other events unfolding, to predict their behavior game to game is not really possible, so just react to what they do, with the Destroyers and Subs hanging back for rear-guard action and any builds in Japan and the mainland, along with some clever gameplay, and you should have the tools to keep the US at bay.

And as for India having all planes and all of their builds on India in UK3, I doubt it will happen often. At least in my experience (which is not the thousands of simulated games that many folks have around again!). I find that in a global context, what is happening in Europe far outweighs what’s going on in the Pacific in terms of attention and importance. The Allies main concerns are there and this strat, no matter how successful it is will be worthless if Germany is doing poorly.

And finally, if things do go bust, and I’m playing against say, Noll, and he’s playing the best 2 turns of his life with UK and thwarting me at every step, and making taking India a near impossibility, then not all is lost! If things seem impossible from J2, don’t move to India, instead play a normal game where you plod around the Pacific doing what ever it is most Japanese players do. You’re still in an excellent position from SZ36 to either threaten multiple key targets, or relocate anywhere you want (you are within 3 of the India, DEI, Carolines, the Philippines, and Japan). If it seems you are off of India and all the sudden its stacked to the heavens with defense units, then you still have options. You can head back the way you came, taking the DEI and Malaya, you can go the other way and throw your opponents for a huge loop when you land in the middle east and build factories there, or go straight to Egypt and prepare to make the UK’s Mediterranean plans go down the tubes. With the Japanese fleet plying the Med and Indian oceans the Japanese player can be a serious threat even if everything else when haywire and you lose your capital, you still control a powerful fleet that is in a place where the allies are weak. Also, in Noll’s worst case scenario, the UK is just sitting in India twiddling its thumbs with nearly 100% of its starting resources and subsequent builds. That’s GREAT for the Axis! You’ve effectively checked India. While you aren’t taking the place, they aren’t doing anything with it either. Meanwhile if the US is going pacific heavy you already won! Even if they eventually clobber Japan it doesn’t matter, ever last IPC that the US drops into the Pacific Ocean is a godsend for the Germany and the Axis overall.

I would posit this based on my experience with this game, and with playing Japan. The game of global is really just playing Europe with an interesting side story. The Pacific board doesn’t really matter. Japan’s job isn’t to win, its to pull as many Allied IPC’s onto the pacific board as it can to make Germany’s life easier on the real board. If the allies totally ignore you then you can help the Euro Axis eat away at Russia and maybe even get your 6/8 VC’s for a surprise victory, but you won’t. Its the Allies job to spend exactly enough IPC’s to prevent Japan from taking 6VC’s and not a penny more, and moving the rest to the Euro board, and its Japans job to pose a big enough threat to fool the allies into spending that penny more, and then some. So measure Japan’s success not in how many capitols or VC’s you capture, but in how many IPC’s you make the Allies waste by putting them on your half of the world.

And Clyde, you Ninja’d me. Thanks for the kind words and I also like your take on it too. Its like I was saying originally. Other than moving your fleet to SZ36 and the planes down to Kwangsi, the rest is salt to taste. It should be a bit more reactionary and can be anything you like to do and think would best thwart the Allies whilst shoring up your own position. I think the transports vs IC is just two sides of the same coin so we’re really on the same page  :-D

I don’t think the key to winning as japan is a bum rush india, or bum rush and try to win the game in the first 3 turns. Take your time. Play methodically and correctly. India will always fall if you play correct as Japan. I can’t see a way India doesn’t fall if you play correctly as japan. Take your time and don’t sack your planes. You need your planes VS. America.

@theROCmonster:

I don’t think the key to winning as japan is a bum rush india, or bum rush and try to win the game in the first 3 turns. Take your time. Play methodically and correctly. India will always fall if you play correct as Japan. I can’t see a way India doesn’t fall if you play correctly as japan. Take your time and don’t sack your planes. You need your planes VS. America.

I agree with the battle-methodic that you mention here but I wonder, as Im assuming the player who started this thread is, what do you consider “playing correctly” as Japan is?

@theROCmonster:

I don’t think the key to winning as japan is a bum rush india, or bum rush and try to win the game in the first 3 turns. Take your time. Play methodically and correctly. India will always fall if you play correct as Japan. I can’t see a way India doesn’t fall if you play correctly as japan. Take your time and don’t sack your planes. You need your planes VS. America.

Well, taking out an opponent is certainly an edge to victory!
I think by this move, you can either create to opportunity to take out India or make him turtle… either way, its good for Axis. I use to send Carriers with planes to z31 just to have USA stay put in z10. But what ZehKaiser suggest here seems way better.

The only thing : I didn’t study Alpha3 map yet… but with Alpha2, I’m certainly interested to see this tactic in a game!

Hi ZehKaiser, thanks for the detailed answer. My counter-opinion of this early India crush were made because I’m interested in it, meaning I like what you’re doing.

As for me I often park my fleet in sz36 J1, but I hare rarely put a naval base there.
I guess this is a great move against a careless India, punishing him for devoting too much on the Europe board (Ethiopia attack, Iraq, planes etc…), and as BBB said, it will work GREAT even in the situation of India turtling.

I play tons of face to face myself too, and my India opponents usually likes to play conservative unfortunately.

I’ve never played online, just face to face games. 4 regular players (including myself) and 2 people that make it when they can. We play every other weekend.
The China moves are standard openers in my opinion, the Naval Base is an excellent idea, but I think going right towards India wouldn’t work in my group. Not as a Turn 3 goal anyway. Generally India’s planes stay on mainland Asia to help push the IJA and the Navy stays to block/harass/attack depending on whatever the IJN seems to be up to. More often than not it revolves around protecting the Dutch territories and containing them as much as possible. As the UK I don’t plan on declaring war on Japan, but if I see an appealing opening I don’t mind taking it.
‘Surprise’ attacks like these are rarely successful, as long as your watching the board and noting the potential moves of your opponents I’m not sure how India can be surprised with the assault.
But just because it wouldn’t be likely to work with us doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work at all, it’s just my read of it and how myself and the others would likely react.

I’ve read the strat outlined by ZehKaiser, and there is nothing new there. This strat has already been mentioned numerous time here. In fact, at least one time for each version (OOB, Alpha +1 and +2).

This strat was a killer in OOB Pacific, and is an interesting Gamble in the Alpha versions.

Fact is: anytime a NB is build on J1 in Hainan(and transports in sz36 of course), India, as a reflex, is watching closely at those moves. The India crush is not going to be a surprise for any decent player.
Ind will take Sum with 2inf from Mal and Cpr with a tnk from Alx via tr sz98, for a maximum defense in India on UK2.

So in the end, you have a battle looking like this:

Attacker= 6 land units + 12-13 planes (AAgun will shot 2 planes in Alpha2, and 1 plane in Alpha3 according to odds).

Defender= 25-26 land units + 3planes

There is no way India will fall without big losses for Japan, and on any good defense or poor attack rolls, India will hold.
This is a strat for gamblers. I wouldn’t play it in a tournament, but why not once in a while in friendly games.