Exactly! That’s why I always wait for a declaration of war. Attacking first caused Japan to lose in real life.
How to play Japan!?
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Threads on Japanese stratgey are always intresting to me as opinions tend to fall into the same to camps that existed in Japan historically.
The Hokushin or “Go North” camp that favored expanding Japans war’s on the Asian mainland and attack Mongolia and the Soviet Union which was championed by the Imperial army. Players who champion the early strike on the Soviets and building and IC in Manchuria and Korea best reflect this in game. Much like the Imperial army of the day, they favor a massive expansion and modernization of Japans existing ground forces. The objectives are to crush, once and for all, Russian influnce in the far east and keep the monarch-murdering bolshvicks from posing a real threat to his imperial majesty and his relms. It also nicely secures Japans northern flank so they can later concentrate on the US and Europeans to the south.
The Nanshin or “Go South” camp favored attacking the resource rich and weakening European colonial position in south-east asia and Indonesian archipelago which was championed by the Imperial navy (though famously not their commander Yamamotto). Germany’s war in Europe has created opertunities for Japan and she can take advantage of this situation by expanding into the void left by the collapse and weaking British, French and Dutch empires. This requires the seziure of the Phillipines to secure Japans left flank in the push south which means war with America. Players who focuse on taking the DEI and Japans necesscary victory cities best repreent this faction in the game. Like the their Imperial navy counter-parts, they favor having a strong naval presence on the board and expanding Japans transport fleet and naval bases to help rapidly delpoy Japanese forces where they need to be to do the most damage to the allies and expand their own economy. The game mechanics themselves actually favor playing this way as the player will not only be capturing victory cities but all of Japans NO bonus IPC comes from following the historical option.
So when you play you first need to decide which of these two camps you fall into and play to that. So, will you fihish off Japans old regional rival in the Soviet Union and Hokushin, or will you choose to not “miss the bus” as they called it then, and take advantage of the weaking Europeans and Nanshin? Best of luck either way! :-D
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Threads on Japanese stratgey are always intresting to me as opinions tend to fall into the same to camps that existed in Japan historically.
So when you play you first need to decide which of these two camps you fall into and play to that. So, will you fihish off Japans old regional rival in the Soviet Union and Hokushin, or will you choose to not “miss the bus” as they called it then, and take advantage of the weaking Europeans and Nanshin? Best of luck either way! :-D
This is easily the best articulated comment I’ve read in any of the forums regarding the strategies of various countries. I couldn’t agree more
C
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lolwut
Alpha broken, and OoB Pacific balanced? :?
Pacific/Europe together. Yes it is quite balanced. Not perfect that Anniversary was, were 3 ICP bid was to much for the Allied.
12 Japan ICP with 4 inf or 3 mech inf makes China and all Asia totally unbalanced. Closing Burma route and attacking Russia without even reinforcing.
I have never played only the new version of Pacific. So i can not tell how balanced it is by its own.
Japan can get 50 IPC by taking 5 in Russia, 6-7 in China. Hong Kong(3), Malaysia(3), French Indochina (2) and Philippines (2) and one of the Dutch islands. With there 28 planes i takes US a long time to build a fleet to be strong enough to sail away from Hawaii. Japan can easily build 2 carriers every turn with start of J2. When Japan in J5 have 9 Carriers (36 hp only these) to move around the US fleet have a huge problem. If US builds maximum attack it will take them 5-6 turns all in in the Pacific to threaten that Japanese fleet. This will be a very logical result if Japan have 12 more IPC in the right position at the beginning. Personally I would prefer 3 mech inf in Manchuria reaching all key Japanese territory in J2.
It will be possible to save 12 IPC with Japan the first round and collect 32 IPC to build IC in French Indochina in J2 and build 2 Carriers.
12 IPC at the start is very much.
If Japan gets 8 new HP on in the fleet every turn (2 carriers + existing planes) it takes heavy US IPC reinforcement in the Pacific. 8 (48 IPC ) sub is a minimum to build the same HP and FP, but with only sub the surface fleet is easily sinkable to airplanes.
This is playable even without the 12 extra ICP in the start but becomes a little to week in China and against India.
Holy crap I can’t understand ANY of your posts in this thread. Not 1.
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This is easily the best articulated comment I’ve read in any of the forums regarding the strategies of various countries. I couldn’t agree more
Oh my, you’ve made me blush :lol:
I am bit of a history nut (if you couldnt tell :roll: ) so I appericate the compliment
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I agree with Carnage, an excellent post Clyde. Bravo!!
When I play Japan, I favor tha Nanshin tactic… but I also kinna apply a little Hokushin view too. Since Russia need to regroup those infantry, I think it’s good tactic for Japan to take those 5-6 Russian territory for economical purposes. Plus it’s 1 more (little) pressure on Russia and deny landing for USA.
But overall, if I have to choose one primary objective, it’s clearly DEI. In most of my games Japan’s income almost matches USA’s. 20 IPC income with those 4 territories!!
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as japan I think your buys are more important than any other country. You are the sole axis player on an entire board. I like 2 transports 1 industry R1. R2 can vary but I think you build 3 mech for the factory and subs and infantry to maximize the transports if the need is there, if not build all subs minus your 3 mech build. From here on out until you grab malaya and can hold it, I like to build 3 mech a turn for the factory you built and subs. The longer you can keep up with the US navy the better. When you take malaya and can hold it I like building a factory there. This sea zone around malaya is a naval base so navy units stationed here can hit a multitude of territories. newly built navy units and ground units are both potent here. Biggest advice I could give is build a lot of subs. After R3 be building at least 5-9 subs a turn, 1 destroyer and if you can 1 carrier. Only build carriers if you need to to defend sea zone 6. Only 2 carriers should be built with japan, as having 5 carriers mean 20 planes can move attack and still land. By japan turn 4-5 japan should be making 65+. If this isn’t the case the pacific isn’t looking good for japan.
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I prioritize my TT builds over mainland builds on J1 and J2. Usually build 3 TT J1 and 4 TT on J2. With those TTs you can take 2 of the DEI on J2 and take Philippines. Plus you have follow up to take the other 2 DEI on J3 AND threaten to take Malaya, Hawaii or Sydney (and, if you build a Hainan NB on J3, India) on J4 with you 4 new TTs. No need to build land units because there is enough stuff on JPN / Korea / Manchuria to load the TTs with.
Meanwhile I can hold out on the mainland by taking a few territories J1 (incl Yunnan), take out Kwangtung on J2 and for the rest be defensive. On J3 I then buy 2 ICs (kwangtung and one other place north of that, forgot the name) and start up production there. The rest of the game is buy stuff on the mainland, build new ICs (FIC, Malaya) and buy cheap naval units to block the progress of the ANZAC and US fleets in every possible way. And when they get to greedy or to far from home, kill them off with planes and a few DDs.
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I like the tranny buys R1 and 2, but I really think you need to buy more fleet than you are saying. After 5-6 turns US will have navy advantage on you if you aren’t building 70-80% navy by J3. Once US gets fleet superiority it doesn’t matter how well you are doing on the land. Japan will never win, and US will be making a ton of money. By turn 6 US can then focus almost all its money in atlantic.
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Thing with Transport strategy is you always start back at Japan. If you build IC, you troops (well, at least 3 of them per IC) are quicker within China. You can also start new ships (including transport) in southern area. I usally build my first IC at J1 (Kiangsu or Manchuria). After that it depends on USA, how heavy they build in Pacific board, but second IC will be Kwangtung or FIC. I might put a third one in Malaya (any of previous without IC), depending on the game.
I use IC for mainland (China/Russia/UK) campaign and transport for Pacific (islands) campaign. I feel the mix of the is the better strategy. But I haven’t tested without IC yet… since I’m succesful with the mixed strategy, I keep using it. :-D
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I agree with Bruce. I do all the same things except I don’t put an industry in kwangtung. I try to put my second industry (if US allows me to by building some in atlantic) in Malaya. A lot of transports have three major problems. 1. you need to defend them with warships taking them away from the best spot to be, say phillipines, carolines, or off japan. 2. Tranports don’t produce men on the mainland, and as Bruce said they have to end up in sea zone 6 to pick up any men. 3. building transports means you will need to build men to fill these extra transports on turn 2. This means that later in the game when you need to fill your transports up you will have to build men on japan meaning less warships you can produce to keep up in the naval race with the US. Once the naval race is lost enough that US and anzac can land in the phillipines and hold, then I just don’t see how Japan has a chance.
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Usually I put myself 2 objectives with Japan. Other objectives are worked only after the first two are done. Because if you spread your forces too much you end up loosing.
My favorite way of playing Japan is:
Securing Indonesia, Attacking China and Russia, with the airforce in between the two nations.
I attack Russia to see their reaction, If they push back I’ll keep getting territories with the starting manchuria and korea force backupped with few planes.
While securing Indonesia I keep investing heavily in my fleet, in order to lock down the US.
This will usually buy me at least 7-8 turns in wich if America hadn’t invested anything in Euro I consider it a big success. If America doesn’t invest heavily in the Pacific I will try to win there, but in a slowly, steady way, with 2 minor ICs in FIC and Malaya taking care of India.
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In all games with Japan, i’ve never really succeed with them. What is the ultimate strategy that you guys use with Japan, what do I need to do in order to become a beast at this game? :)
I didn’t bother to read the rest of this thread so I hope I’m not repeating anybody, and I don’t often post here or spend too much time reading so if this old hat or common then forgive me, I’m ignorant to the Interwebz ultimate win strat.
BUT I always open the same way. J1 I build a Naval Base in Hainan (and 2 research but this is discretionary). I then move every ship the IJN has except for 3 destroyers and the 2 subs to SZ36. I leave a defense force of 4inf in both Manchuria and Korea in case the Soviets leave a big force, but I will reduce that number over the game as they do if they pull them back to Moscow/Timguska. I never invade the Soviet Union in the Amur region as it takes up too much resources and yields little benefit. I instead focus heavily with my starting units into China. Don’t take French Indo-China either. Just attack Chahar, Anhwe, Hunan, and of course Yunnan. Use as much of your air power here as possible. Landing all of it that you can either in Kwangsi or SZ36 on your carriers. Load all 3 transports and move them to SZ36 as well, dumping them on Kwangsi until you reload them on J2.
At the end of J1 I have 3 Destroyers off Japan, they will serve as blockers for the US on later turns. The 2 subs are off of the Caroline Is. to serve as I see fit later on, they can often cause some kind of mischief. The rest of the IJN are in SZ36, the carriers loaded, the transports empty, and the land units in Kwangsi until their pickup the following turn. All the air should be in Kwangsi or on carriers in SZ36, there can be a few stragglers around China after your J1 push into China, but get them there by J2! You should collect 40 IPCs, 26, +4 for the 4 Chinese territories you took, and +10 for your NO of not being at war with the Allies (aside from China ofc)
On J2 build whatever you like but I prefer a Small Factory in Manchuria, (much more effecient than going all transports, but always have a few around). I also will build an Air Base in Kwangsi as a form of insurance in case things don’t go well this turn. I then attack more in China using the Air force to make all the battles last only 1 round, thereby taking as few casualties as possible, but also ensuring I land every last air unit I have in Kwangsi or on the carriers. Next I non-combat move all the ships from SZ36 (and your new Naval Base) 3 spaces to SZ39 just off India. The Allies can’t block this move because you’re not yet at war (at least I doubt it lol) You don’t attack on J2 you just move the whole fleet next to India for some nice sight seeing. You should have 2 battleships, 2 cruisers, a Destroyer, 3 loaded carriers and 3 loaded transports (ideally with 3inf, 2 art, and 1 arm, but 4inf, 1art, 1arm is also acceptable). Now your plan should be obvious to the allies (you’re going to take India by J3) but I bet until you make the move they will assume you are trying some crazy sack Australia strat… This will also through them off and likely many of their units will already be off of India moving up the Burma Road or towards Egypt. Lastly don’t forget to Non Combat Move a destroyer to SZ25 to block the US fleet buildup on Hawaii from hitting you too soon in Japan.
On J3 you attack India! If the Allied player is caught totally unawares by this you can hit India with 4 shore bombards from your fleet, 6 land units, and every single plane Japan starts with (you should not have lost any yet!!!). I don’t care what the UK player builds, he cannot stop this, he can only make it more painful for you to take. But likely they will be caught at least somewhat unawares and you will take it while only losing a few planes. Note it might be neccessary to hit any combat units they have adjacent to India with excess planes if there is a force substantial enough to take India back after you sack it. I’ve done this before with 1 transport and some planes on occasion.
There are few problems with this if the UK player is clever. He could declare war first on UK1 and thereby block your naval movement. If he does it throws this out the window, but you’re in a prime position to fan out and take all the DEI without bringing the US into the war on J2!!! OR they might declare war on UK2 to try to re-take Yunnan and thereby prevent you from having a landing zone for your fighters. Even if they do this you can still attack with 14 planes. that’s 6 fighters, 6 tac bombers and 2 strats. This is done by 3 fighters, 3 tacs, and the 2 strats taking off from Kwangsi and the fighters and tacs will land on the carriers while the 2 strats go back to kwangsi. Then the 3 tacs and 3 fighters from the carriers hit india and then land in kwangsi. So by them switching places they can double their attacking air units. Any excess air that can’t hit india from Kwangsi cuz they’d have nowhere to land can hit any counter attacking force in Burma instead. If there isn’t one they can retake Yunnan and/or go into China. Also take FiC on J3. And lastly, since its J3, if you can snipe any US targets of opportunity with your subs and destroyers, or have to take SZ25 back from them, do it since they will get their money this turn anyways.
There you have it. By J3 you should have wiped out the UK in the pacific, hold India, and have a working factory in Manchuria. China should be near death and you should be ready to churn out tanks to go into Russia via China and the Middle East by J4. (I find a mix of tanks out of India, and Mech Inf in Manchuria is best as its cheaper) The IJN should sweep back and take the DEI on J4 and J5 and your economy should explode. Then just spar with the US in the pacific and avoid a major confrontation, delaying them while hammering Russia until Germany can Take Moscow (if your German player is good this will happen around G6 or G7 at the latest, and you will be well into Russia by then helping)
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#ZehKaiser
what if after you move all your fleet in India’s seas, during J2, the american player moves all his fleet 1 sea zone from sz6?
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Excellent post ZehKaiser.
I’ve look at it and yes sounds a strong strat. I’m, personnaly, too conservative type to risk it tho. If it fails, taking India I mean, than Japan is quite fragile. Without strong economy, most of is fleet far away and transport a long way from land units.
But I feel it will succeed very often. So the big question is : Can Japan return in Pacific quick enough to face a strong USA. Sounds like so. With Naval base in Calcutta and z36. The other question, can Japan hold Calcultta.
Again, a stong Japan move… I would so like play Allies against this strat, a very good challenge I think.
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I’d like to play the Allies against this strat as well. Especially if he think I’m inept enough to think a fleet sitting off my coast would be a crazy strategy to capture Australia.
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#ZehKaiser
what if after you move all your fleet in India’s seas, during J2, the american player moves all his fleet 1 sea zone from sz6?
I don’t see this as a real problem. USA can’t have an amphibious attack strong enough to take Japan. As for navy, I never (ever) saw a USA able to hold in z6 long… with Japan’s planes, I would just load 2 fresh carrier in z6 along with few DD (as ZEH said, kept behind) and additionnal 3 planes in Japan. It should do it to repel USA Navy.
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In the worst case scenario:
a) either china or uk take back Yunnan during turn#2
b) India reinforced greatly starting from UKP1.
c) A dd is kept in the sz to prevent the bombing.What would be the odds of taking India with 6 ground forces and 14 planes?
Then there’s another question: Will you be able to defend from US after you lost so many planes? (I assume you’re going to lose a LOT of them in this case scenario)
Two rounds of purchases without NOs (Having not declared war)
34 ipcs of infantry =
+11 infantry
Persia in the “way back” with 2 infantry in exchange of the one activating it:
+1 infantry
Burma
+2 infantry +1fighterso that’s:
22 infantry
1 artillery
2 aagun
1 tac.bomber
2 fightersJapan would have:
3 infantry
3 artillery
2 bombers
6 tac.bombers
6 fightersWith the battle simulator this is a 4% win odds for Japan against a 96% one for India. This in my opinion means that you can do this elaborate J3 India crush only if your opponent is careless, meaning the same opponent won’t fall for it twice.
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Now let’s simulate what are Japan odds if he keeps Yunnan round#2.
This means if I remember correctly 10 fighters 8 tac.bombers 2 bombers
In this case Japan has a 55% win ratio, so in case of win with huge aerial losses. (Also the combat calculator doesn’t account the new AAs taking 2 more hits)
In the scenario you get India with this move, would you be able to recover the loss of the 90% (at very last) of your airforce?
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It’s not an absolute theory and, as I said, I’m too conservative to do it. Anyhow, I see good in this strategy. To answer you Noll :
a. I think this will happen, this is why I consider only 14 planes (6 From z39 to KWA, 6 from KWA landing on 3AC, 2 SB)
b. True, but even with around 50 combat value (CV) for India, Japan can be succesful.
c. True, this is why I didn’t consider shore bombardement.So Japan would have around 12CV with ground troops and 50CV with planes for a total of 62CV… which takes 10 units at first round… must have a very strong defence in Calcutta to resist another round of this!
For you other question, Japan has 7 more planes. As I said earlier post, 4 are on 2 carrier at z6 and 3 other planes in Japan itself. This alone is 30CV/11HP, add few DD left behind and few purchases and Japan is defended enough.
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I agree with Zeh’s stratgey overall but with a few minor exceptions, as like you BigBad, I would be much more conservative with my forces.
The attacks on China are well placed and pretty much cannon at this point, but spot on all the same.
The naval base in sz36 is brilliant as well as concentrating your fleet with the transports here. It allows you to completely menace the south pacific and all of Japans traget victory and NO areas at once. It shows the allies that you mean bussiness down there, but keeps the true target a mystery.
The concentration on Yunnan is also excellent as outside of Shanghai its the only territory in China really worth holding on to (I know its only worth 1IPC but its worth 7IPC to China, with the NO and all). However there is where I would diverge from this plan. I would concentrate on building more transports and maybe a cruiser, instead of building the IC in Manchuria. I would play some-what reactionary to what Britian did, because as someone who plays Britian often, I have seen India been become quite the fortress, with a decent fleet and scrambling aircraft. I would also save the air-base for J3 to be placed on IndoChina after I take it. I would also try to position the subsequent transports so that they could take as much of the DEI and the Philippines as possible while that main body of the fleet goes for the water off India. Again it would depend on what the UK did, if they turtled in India, I would land in Burma and try to lure them out, if they moved into Burma to try and help China then I would still hit them there to try and destroy their main body of forces, or hit India depending on how well defended they left it.
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