Vichy France E40

@FranceNeedsMorePower

That’s a better idea, especially since Japan is usually somewhat stretched to the limits on their declaration of war on the US.

@hengst If this feels too strong for the Allies, move the SZ 96 cruiser & destroyer to SZ 81. Otherwise, it forces the UK to choose between prosecuting the war against Italy & liberating the Vichy boats. If they don’t turn them all Free French, they may have a serious issue on their hands on G2. Similarly, it forces Germany to decide: do I want to kill French ships or force the UK to make a play for them.

After that, France will be a very minor yet present actor in the campaign for North Africa & eventually the retaking of Europe. If the UK ensure to liberate Syria, they may also fight in the defense of Cairo.

I haven’t seen somebody gamble on a Vietnam play, but that is also possibly in the cards.

Hey, I came up with a house rule and could use some feedback.  I felt that the Vichy France regime was an important historical faction, and wanted to include them, so here goes…
Once the territories of France and Normandy Bordeaux are under axis control, the Axis can choose whether or not to make Southern France the capital of the remaining French territories, now under Axis control.  However, all French units in or adjacent to an allied territory become under British control.  When any occupied French territories in the mainland are liberated by the allies, the Vichy units all disband and the territories become Allied again, with the exception of the units and territory of southern France, which remains Axis.

Feel free to comment or criticize, it can’t hurt!

I think what I would do is just stack Paris, sink z96, and grab Java and land the ANZAC fighters there.  I calculate that Germany would have to use the entire luftwaffe plus all land units in range to take Paris without losing large number of tanks/mechs.  I think this is historically fair because stacking Paris would be in the spirit of France being in defensive mode, and let’s just say that in the real war France got diced by the sickle cut.  It should have been harder for Germany.  So in this scenario the royal navy would be quite safe and without any possibility of sealion they could easily afford to nuke Taranto and build an IC in Egypt right away.  Russia gets some breathing room and a strong UK gives USA more room to focus on the Pacific. ANZAC having an extra round of income and $14 for the first couple rounds is a small help too.

@phd_angel

Thanks so much! Sorry for the delayed response here. I was on parental leave with my son, so I wasn’t online much the last few months!

I definitely appreciate the feedback. I’m with you, my hope for any houserule is to keep a semblance of realism while working out whatever game play issues there were that made the houserule pop up in the first place!

The uncertainty of allegiances pre-battle is quite interesting. But I try to minimize dice randomness. IRL (in real life), Vichy troops (just like Italians) surrendered as soon as seeing enemy superiority: thus, in the game, if Allies send more land + air units than defending Vichy units, there is no battle but surrender. Or, make it unlikely that a battle would ensue (for example, need to roll a 1).

I definitely agree overall here, I think this one got away from A&A mechanics the most. Part of me didn’t want to make it completely against the Axis, but I think something like you suggest on bringing more men (or maybe twice as many), would void any combat.

IPC system, however, is historically inaccurate (as in most, if not all, Vichy mods I’ve seen): IRL, Nazi Germany profited handsomely on Vichy which had to quite richly sustain 300,000 German troops stationed in Northern France! So, in the game, Germany should actually gain IPC bonus, whereas Vichy and Free France gain nothing. How much, certainly 3 IPC, at least.

I also get your point here. However, the main goal for me in creating the Vichy France rule was an overwhelming thought by players that the Axis has too great an advantage. By creating Vichy in this scenario it weakens the Axis some by taking away from them, as well as adding to the Allies by adding the Free French. I think if we were to give the Germans more IPC’s, it takes away the point of creating the rule in the first place (which again, was to try and help weaken the OOB Axis advantages).

Finally, Germany never fought Vichy. IRL, with Operation Torch, Germany simply occupied Vichy in 1942, with no resistance whatsoever. Vichy units were disbanded. That can be also the case in the game.

I also agree that combat did not really happen, at least on a large scale. I suppose I don’t know enough to understand every potential action that might have happened, no matter how small. This was again something designed to make the German player think twice before just invading the Vichy territories. It’s going to cost them a bit. Again, just a device to hopefully help balance.

I personally don’t like the idea of bids at the beginning of a game. We try and either house rule to help change, or just deal with it how we can. But yeah, the main hope/goal here was to have a somewhat realistic scenario, while also hopefully tipping the scales a bit away from the Axis, while not ruining gameplay and design too much.

Thanks so much for your input! Hope 2021 is treating you well!

Chris

I think France should get an extra CV and a TT in either sz 109, sz 111, sz 110 and the reason for the TT is that then they can move their troops easier around the board without having to use their ally’s or even get the troops in Normandy to England.

There are about 20 threads on this topic already.

I recommend the following if you don’t want to upset game balance but Give France a greater role in the game

www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=21892

Just curious why “Oil producing Countries” are not brought into play in the 1942 game as they are for 1939.  Makes for a very strategic play.

Its a deliberate tiered approach to introducing ideas outside OOB/LHTR… the idea of three stages of learning: basic, intermediate, advanced.

People invariably start basic and learn that the game does not need to remain an abstraction of WW2, but even with pieces can allow for rules to create a historical model of the real war and its realistic capabilities. Many issues are swept under the rug to deliberately dumb down the game for the beer crowd, but Grognads expect something more and AARHE delivers the promise.