Italy a bad design

this is why we need a battlemap module!  Stoney please save us lol.

Couple of things i think people are missing as options.

1. Control of Gibralter.  There are many ways for germany to get boats into the med.  If both G and I have boats in the med and transports, they can continually trade gibralter to prevent the allies from entering the med.

2. Airpower.  With the airbase in france the germans can hit nearly any of the med sea zones.  You start with 8 planes vs 1 US boat, and a handful of UK boats (even less if they send the carrier into the med).  You should be able to purchase around 3 planes on G2, and continue to purchase atleast 2 a turn if not more afterward.  This will prevent the allies from coming at you in force.

3. Victory conditions.  Axis need 14 VCs.  Japan can easily have 7 by turn 4 or 5 if ignored by the allies.  The germans/italians start with control of 3 and gain a 4th from paris.  That leaves 3 remaining.  Japan should be able to secure Egypt and possibly even stalingrad or even LA if ignored, meaning germans only need to take leningrad for the win.

4. Good for the goose, good for the gander.  Japan has more planes to send to europe than the UK. Sikang to Romania is the quickest route i can see, and should be doable by turn 5ish I would assume.  Japan can also simply build nearly 7-8 a turn to continue to do this.

@TexCapPrezJimmy:

@miamibeach:

The UK Gibraltar fleet attacking the Italians in SZ95 is a mistake.  It can only work out ok for the Allies if the German player is inexperienced.  Please, use your imagination before you decide you are a perfect player and cant figure this one out.

Twit.

What an awesome response!  Very constructive and insightful!  You got me on that one…somehow I now agree with you.  Take a look at the post in front of you by plasticdeathbydice…that sums it up perfectly.

@Real:

Cant the German submarines in the Atlantic attack the British fleet near the mediteranian.  From the looks of it Germany has two submarines in 103 and 109 that could at least do a volley against the British forces in sea zone 91.  If you score a hit he will either kill the destroyer or take some damage on the carrier which wont allow him to fix launch the planes.  Either way this seems like a sensible German move and it might dissuade the British from attacking Italy.
Naturally there will be a cost to wiping out the British navy but that can be done in G2 if you dont have sufficient forces.

This is what I want to try tonight- but I am going to add a Tac from West Germany and maybe a fighter (or possibly the Bomber in Germany if it can reach- also assuming you can fly over nuetrals, I believe you can…).  This should be a even fight with a slight German advantage- 1 4+, a 3+ and 2 2+s vs a 4 and 2 2s.  I should be able to get 2-3 hits, so destroying the Tac and either the DD or damaging the CV.  On avgerage I should lose 1 SS.  Germany can afford that easy and i don’t think I’ll be draining a lot of strength from the attack on France.
This should give Italy a much better chance at surviving the battle on UK1.  I’ll post back after tonight.

I think you can only overfly friendly neutrals, but I’m AFRB right this second.

I dont think you can use the fighter and tactical bomber because there is nowhere for them to land.  But if you have a bomber, it can move 7 and you can take it from Germany and land it in Northern Italy.  When I get the game tomorrow….grrrrr!  That will be my strategy.  The odds are pretty good, it seems 2 at 2, 1 at 4, against 1 at 1, 1 at 4, 1 at 2.  This could seriously save the Italian Navy.  Has anybody tried this.

how can the bomber reach the UK fleet off Gibraltor in SZ 91?

I was just looking at that and apparently it cant, grr.  Well I am still going to send two submarines after that.  Can planes ever attack subs or is that only when the destroyer is present?

planes can only hit subs when destroyers are present

@Real:

I was just looking at that and apparently it cant, grr.  Well I am still going to send two submarines after that.  Can planes ever attack subs or is that only when the destroyer is present?

You’re right, my bad.  I am going to send the 2 subs against it as well.  The Tac can attack the sub only with the DD present- so at least 1 hit and the UK has to either damage the CV or lose the DD, condemning the CV at the same time.  There’s a decent shot that the 2 SS will take out both ships while they themselves are sunk- a fair trade in my book.

Even if I Germany can hit the Gibr fleet (can’t really do much damage), but at what cost. The UK has a better chance of keeping a BB (or other ships) doesn’t it. I have only played 2 partial games so far, but what seems to work is if Germany puts out a Sea Lion threat early. This forces the UK to spend money on ground troops at home, and try to block out the German fleet (costing UK/French boats). This could be just a threat to keep UK honest, you could always return the German fleet to the safety of the Baltic and use it to invade Russia (as mentioned by previous posters)

I have to agree w/miamibeach, (those comments are childish). Putting the UK carrier w/French fleet is dicey at best. Germany will kill them w/air from W Germany. This could be an allied strat though, if Germany hits it. It keeps German air tied up, and will most likely reduce the Luftwaffe.

In one game that we played Germany went navy, and a Sea lion was a threat. As UK you can block the Baltic fleet (as long as they stay there) giving you a little cushion. If they come out G1 and add a carrier w/air, and some support ships in sz 112, you would have to abandon the Italian navy attack in sz 95 wouldn’t you. You would most likely have to try to take out the German navy, using the carrier to soak up hits. Either that or build inf in England to absorb the Sea lion attempt (or both). You would still want that carrier to head to the Atlantic regardless for attack or to re-build the UK fleet, and not be in the Med (at least I would). If there is no Sea lion threat then I might take out the Italian navy, but I would see the counter attack coming, knowing that the allied fleet in the Med would most likely be taken out as well.

Hey Indianapolis, I dont have the game yet.  Unlike all you guys who live on the Eastcoast I still have to wait until tomorrow to pummel the Russians to bloody submission….and since there is no rulebook online I am looking towards you.

@bugoo:

1. Control of Gibralter.  There are many ways for germany to get boats into the med.  If both G and I have boats in the med and transports, they can continually trade gibralter to prevent the allies from entering the med.

I totally agree.  Based on the Straights of Gibraltar rule, it is much wiser for Italy to either hold Gibraltar or trade it back and forth.  This way they don’t have to have a mega-fleet to offset the American one.  They will still need some boats to protect their transports from air attack but they don’t need an uber-fleet.

I have been quoted twice!  Makes me feel so warm and fuzzy……

@plumsmugler:

@bugoo:

1. Control of Gibralter.  There are many ways for germany to get boats into the med.  If both G and I have boats in the med and transports, they can continually trade gibralter to prevent the allies from entering the med.

I totally agree.  Based on the Straights of Gibraltar rule, it is much wiser for Italy to either hold Gibraltar or trade it back and forth.  This way they don’t have to have a mega-fleet to offset the American one.  They will still need some boats to protect their transports from air attack but they don’t need an uber-fleet.

How is it possible for Germany have the points to do all this plus hold off the Russians and cover West Germany/Denmark against the brits?  Where does Italy find the pts to do Gibraltar trading if it’s stuck at 10-14 pts and it’s fleet is sitting at the bottom of the Med?  The US can come at Gibraltar on T4 with 150 pts of fleet and units with more arriving each successive turn.  It looks wiser to me to have Germany concentrate its army in W Germ, Denmark and South Germany to counterattack after any allied landing and to just say to hell with Gibraltar.

Maybe Gibraltar should not have a naval base? Malta got downgraded, so why not Gibraltar as well……