Iraq, again

hmmm i’m not really sure what time for staurday… i usually wake up @ 9 or 10 so maybe like 10:30? i dunno, whatever time is good for you i guess… what bond game are you schooling your kid in? one on the N64? or like on xbox or ps2 or gamecube? (i heard the new ones for xbox and ps2 and gamecube are awful, but i loved goldeneye back in the day… like 3 years ago) there are great games for the new systems though, like splinter cell and ghost recon and halo

let’s make it 11:00 est. in the zone. I’ve got a ps2, mostly for my boy, but i like to play the madden games. I still haven’t tried the nickle blitz yet. - been arguing too much. the bond game is the older agent under fire. I don’t think we’ve ever played the game - just the multi player- he nearly beat me today- we had the golden guns -one shot one kill- I had to cheat a bit to remain the dominant male.

but is that the answer- no. over the last 15 years we’ve tripled (and some) fuel economy. in the early 80’s a good car got 12 mpg. now we get 32- 38. has this reduced our dependancy on foreign oil???

Imagine what our economy would be like if cars still got 12 mpg.

Communism at it’s heart is pure Democracy, more pure than Capitalism.

People define democracy in different ways.

If the Government would wake up and switch to Nuclear Energy and Hydrogen power, we wouldn’t need oil.

The transition time takes long – not to mention the fact nuclear energy is not supported by the maj. of Americans.

Mainstream hydrogen powered vehicles will be on sale to the public in less than 2 months

Proof? :o

My point is, the Government has been covering something up for 50 years, and the American people have a right to know about it.

It depends how vital to national secruity it is. Is it wasn’t, then the government would’ve released this data a long time ago to end speculation. There are still documents classified from WWII…

lighten up, it was not ignorance towards communism- it was comedy- smokey and the bandit???
I know enough about the re distribution of wealth to know that in principle, theory and practice it’s wrong. Why should I give up part of what I work for- for the benefit of a few dreggs who can’t survive on their own? why should I go to work and bust my hump to get the same quality of life as my neighbor who is out of work with a “back injury” or my uncle who has no means to support his ten kids. hell they drive nicer cars than I do. that is the essence of communism. take from the haves give to the have nots- everybody’s equal, happy and without social turmoil.
well that fails to take into account peoples desire to be rewarded for hard work. and peoples despair when they see others (who couldn’t survive without government subsistance) rewarded for being sloths.
hell now I’m really upset, let’s discuss the relationship between communism the democratic party and welfare- or for that matter unemployment. any takers??
A MAN IS ONLY WORTH AS MUCH AS HE CAN WORK FOR. it doesn’t matter the skin color, or sexual orientation, what matters to me is could you be useful enough to survive without the government? I can, I do it every day. and I don’t appreciate part of my income going to subsidize dead beat bums who live off of the system.
maybe you can tell me… in a communist society what does the guy who always gives 110% get??? how about the slacker who slides by B>S>ing his way thru life???

Read my topics on communism!!! :o It’s funny that you contradict yourself by saying “well that fails to take into account peoples desire to be rewarded for hard work… and peoples despair when they see others rewarded for being sloths,” yet this was the very basis for Marx’s Theory of Surplus Value. Why should the idle capitalist be rewarded for the surplus labor extracted from the working laborer?

maybe you can tell me… in a communist society what does the guy who always gives 110% get??? how about the slacker who slides by B>S>ing his way thru life???

Sigh If you want to start a “Communism vs. Capitalism” Thread, then I will be happy to respond to it. As for your comments, read some of Hind’s works on work distribution of primitive societies.

this is why months before the soviet union fell, people in the city were starving to death, b/c the farmers had discovered that it was cheaper to not send their crops to the city at all, to just eat and keep what they needed and let the rest rot.

It fell because the centralized minority did not pay attention or try to represent the needs of the people…

to have it work, you need everyone to give 100% ALL THE TIME.

This is simply not true. It would be equal to saying that in capitalism, the suppler produces at 100% efficency. For communism, what if each person only had to work a few hours a day?

the newer hydrogen fuel cell cars will be a much better solution, and in the interm the diesel and gasoline electric cars get incredible mileage. electic cars create other problems as well. how long does your cell phone battery last?

Most likely you will see hybrid vehicles start to become mainstream (already the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight are out on the market) near the mid to late 2000’s, with FVC’s not making headway in the market by the end of the decade.

that’s great for the environment- but now imagine a battery four to eight times the size of the one in your current vehicle. what the hell are you gonna do with that every four years (or less) when you need a new one??? batteries decay-short- and are unrelyable. we will be swicthing to 42 volt batteries in cars within the next few years to further increase fuel economy. this will require even larger batteries.

Uh, no. I have worked with Southern California Edison Electric before and some of their battery vehicles (EV-1’s) have lasted as much as 100,000 miles without change in battery. Also the batteries used in Ev’s are recyclable. Also the batteries in cars today are much higher, the RAV4-EV’s use 288 total voltage.

for instance- fuel injection has been out since the sixties- it has the benefits of lower emmissions and higher gas mileage. why then wasn’t it placed on all cars?? NO IT"S NOT A GOVERNMENT CONSPIRACY. it is because the technology was not streamlined enough to mass market. as the technology developed we went from carbs, to feedback carbs, to Throttle body injection, to multi port injection and finally to tune port.

Today we have plenty of other ways to reduce fuel emissions and higher MPG’s like electronic valve control.

strongbad you are a kid after my own blackened and diseased conservative heart

I thought us conservatives should be more tempered and more rational? :)

TG mostly I’ll respond to the vehicle stuff-
batteries that will go 100, 000 miles? I said four years- typically the customers that I deal with will have closer to 150K on their cars in four years. so it’s the same differense- no offense.

and I keep on top of the industry- it’s my job. I’ve dealt with electric cars- as part of wright patt afb’s emmissions compliance program, and that’s where I base my opinions on that. also the types of cars were seeing now- the hybrid ULV’s and the SULv’s ARE just a stop gap. we are extremely close to full production of the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle. it doesn’t work like an IC engine. it has more to do with hydrogen cell stacking- more like a battery- I’ll refresh myself and then comment tomarrow.

I thought it was funny that bush said we’ll push forward on the issue of hydrogen fuel cars- to me it’s almost like saying- tomarrow i’m going to set in motion a serious of events that will lead to massive global communication- and I’ll call it the internet. :D

also you miss my point on communism. I don’t work on cars to get rich, it’s a challenge. kind of like solving a puzzle. where the reward is a job well done and a feeling of accomplishment. where does some one like me fit in in a communist society where IDEALLY everyone is happy with the mundain. WOW we could all work three hours a day- that sounds great if your Ideal goal is to get down to living comfortably and working no hours per day. but what about me? I work harder and expect more- and I demand more from others- line me up for the firing squad I guess?
to me communism almost seems like a day dreamers paradise. we’ll all be rich, and have all the beer you can drink, and all the women will be really hot to. and we can work if we want to , then we can just be cool man.

and the part where you said it seemed like I was contradicting myself- I’m not quite sure what you mean-
your quote almost (to me ) infers that why should the boss get rich off the fruit of my labors while I sit here being poor. that’s not what I said. to me the boss gets rich because he has the most to loose. and I’m not poor- I’m not rich either - but I work harder so I deserve more.
no, what I said was I am the worker bee, I bring nectur back to the hive. why should cleetus’s big butt get some of my nectur!? all he does is longe around the hive and complain that he can’t fly because his back hurts. mean while he’s running around bench pressing beer cans and driving a bigger SUV than me. does that make any sense? probably not. I’m tired see you tomarrow.

“TG mostly I’ll respond to the vehicle stuff-
batteries that will go 100, 000 miles? I said four years- typically the customers that I deal with will have closer to 150K on their cars in four years. so it’s the same differense- no offense.”

I hope that I am not too out of line when I respond to TG’s post. Current analyst in this area predict that the average battery on a Electric Vehicle will last 3 to 5 years (200,000+ miles or 500 cycles), depending on how much you drive. The replacement batteries cost from $600 to $1500, which is not as expensive as you think considering all the maintenance and fuel cost with a normal ICE.

“we are extremely close to full production of the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle.”

Actually at the school that I go to, we are working hard to build a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle (proton exchange membrane). >^^< What product are you working on? How much were you able to lower the cost of 1 kW from a FC under mass production? ^^

When it comes to communism, I care more about humanity than a desire for industry profits. However, TG says I can never be a communist. :cry:

Tg
don’t think I’m arguing with you, I don’t have an argumentative tone while I’m writing (YOU). I can see we are agreeing on many issues. however the benefits / drawbacks of communism isn’t/aren’t one of them. I feel strongly about hard work, dedication, and working for my goals. I see the belief that everything can be easy if we all just… as being contrary to those beliefs.
I recognise that ho chi mihn was a great leader. and that the form of communism veitnam adopted was very beneficial - temporarily to by far the majority of the people- who before had nothing. but there has to be social class distinction. any socialist/communist society still maintains class distinction. those who rule have more- and therefore merely subjegate the masses. maybe in a perfect word we could all be nomadic grazers where we are all equal, but in reality I can’t see how anyone would tolerate life in moderation- or life at someone elses pace. we’d either fall prey to a more organized less lethargic society, or we’d all be so lazy we’d just shoot ourselves to get it over with. unless of course your commie society was the one with the chicks and booze - in that case I’m in. :D

“I feel strongly about hard work, dedication, and working for my goals.”

Yes, my brother shares those same exact work ethics too. However, he humbly states that his loyalty to dedication and excellence should not be accredited to him, but a way to prove that hardwork can still prevail in America and under a communist society. Maybe that is his incentive for trying… :)

“I recognise that ho chi mihn was a great leader.”

I apologize that I do not know too much about him. :(

“unless of course your commie society was the one with the chicks and booze - in that case I’m in.”

I will be happy sitting under a tree with a good book. ^_^;;

TG TM jeez now I’m confused. actually I’m not a student. I work on cars- and to stay ahead of the game you have to constantly read and attend classes and seminars. working on cars in most reputable shops involves sophisticated tools and an excellent understanding of how and why they work (theory). I have some industry reports from last summer with actual production time tables and the thoery behind the hydrogen fuel cell. it’s not too complex- just different. I hope that doesn’t disappoint you (me not being the typical left wing internet rocket scientist), but my favorite job is being my kids dad. and that beats rocket science any day.

“working on cars in most reputable shops involves sophisticated tools and an excellent understanding of how and why they work (theory).”

I am always looking for people to contact and exchange information with in regards with our project, and you seem like just the person in this field! ^^

“it’s not too complex- just different.”

I agree. The actual workings of a PEM fuel cell are not that hard to understand. :)

“I hope that doesn’t disappoint you (me not being the typical left wing internet rocket scientist), but my favorite job is being my kids dad. and that beats rocket science any day.”

Awwwww…. how sweet. :oops: ~_~

“Tg
don’t think I’m arguing with you, I don’t have an argumentative tone while I’m writing (YOU).”

I apologize for that, Sir Alamein. Sometimes, Older brother can come overly harsh or critical with a topic such as communism. It is in contrite that you are never offended again. :(

@alamein:

…and the blowing up thing was that if the russians did attack, and made it to the rhine- we’d nuke the whole darn country to prevent them from having it. …
I have many many photos of the american’s go home protests and the anti nuke protests from that time.

Does the latter surprise you when you read the first?
How is “blowing up a country when it is being attacked” the defending that we were told you would do?
I would have prefered living under a soviet regime to being blown to pieces by friends any time.

@alamein:

A MAN IS ONLY WORTH AS MUCH AS HE CAN WORK FOR.

@alamein:

your quote almost (to me ) infers that why should the boss get rich off the fruit of my labors while I sit here being poor. that’s not what I said. to me the boss gets rich because he has the most to loose.
…
no, what I said was I am the worker bee, I bring nectur back to the hive. why should cleetus’s big butt get some of my nectur!?

Somehow the queen of a hive doesn’t seem like working a lot… and how does the first quote not contradict the “the boss gets rich becuase he has the most to lose” line?
having most to lose is not working, somehow.

And a last thing on that first quote:
The Nazis coined the term “unwertes Leben”, “unworthy lifes”, meaning any handicapped person, people who could not work so that the german people (hive) would profit from that.
I always thought that humanity would make mankind different from animals… though it seems we have quite a way to go there.

f_alk -

I would tend to agree with you about humanity- not being much different than animals- and would reply that in truth we try too hard to deny that we are little more than animals. only our ability to use and record language has allowed us to rise above the rest. we still have all the same basic urges of animals- mate, defend territory, self preservation, and species proliferation. the more we try to make ourselves out to be more than that, the less we’ll understand about ourselves. consequence- man’s dependancy on psychiatric drugs.

and your argument about a preference for soviet domination as opposed to USA’s two handed friendship, I can only reply with this-

ask your grandparents how they felt about the red army as it approached germany. those people we not out to win a war- they wanted revenge. they killed everything they could, and raped and pilliaged what they wanted. germans that couldn’t flee to the west (and surrender to us) killed themselves rather than be subjected to the russians.

two quick examples- both from the very informative history channel series war of the century-

one- they talk about a town were the people actually went down to the river and drowned their children and themselves. one of the survivors painfully recalled all the bloated bodies. - how determined do you have to be to drown yourself?
and the second was how the german soldiers who were captured were briefly interrogated - then had their throats cut! and the guy doing this bragged about it!
guderian himself was “very fortunate” to be staying in a hostel near the us lines when the war ended.

US justice- Pieper’s ss panzer unit killed what 28 american POW’s at malmedy? after the war all survivors of this unit were sentenced to hang for this crime. but the US courts got involved- and only Pieper served time- what six years? and was released. of course he was quickly killed by a jewish assassin. but of course - we’re war like barbarians and life is better under soviet rule.

WHY then when germany re-united in 88, was the east so screwed up. why the sudden rise in inflation and unemployment. and as I remember many in the west didn’t want to absorb the east’s debt. they feared that they were in such bad shape it would bankrupt the country.
NOW those in the east had no such qualms about the west. they packed everything they could into those cheap little cars and headed west baby. lest the soviets change their minds.

also a side note on terrorism-
the reason I brought up terror attacks in the first place(before F_alk) threw me off by denouncing me as ludicrous was to argue that the soviets we not merely defending themselves. they wanted us to leave so they would have europe. WHY? who knows, why did hitler want russia, or napoleon for that matter?
there were always terror attacks in germany. the two I citied were two I could clearly remember as a youth that were soviet backed. terror attacks continued into the 90’s in europe (and germany - berlin night club) but were middle eastern in origin.
my point was that… IF the soviets didn’t want war… why train and finance terrorists to aggitate anti american sentiment? we (to my knowledge didn’t do this). at least not in romainia, hungry, check, yugosl. ect.
another example- the nation that has peace as it’s ultimate aim for war realizes the futility in building enough nuclear weapons to destroy thr world 100 times over- then we build missle defense systems. the country that wants war states that the anti missle system could provoke war, then works on counter measures for our defense system.
and russia, china, vietnam they were all as close to communist as you can get. you will never achieve some magic utopia. their founding principles were of communist Idiology, they were as close as humanly possible. but humans are corruptable, so communism cannot work.

TG mostly I’ll respond to the vehicle stuff-
batteries that will go 100, 000 miles? I said four years- typically the customers that I deal with will have closer to 150K on their cars in four years. so it’s the same differense- no offense.

Lithium ion (or polymer) batteries have a higher energy density then FC’s…

TG TM jeez now I’m confused.

Ummm… we are two different people… :)

Yes, my brother shares those same exact work ethics too. However, he humbly states that his loyalty to dedication and excellence should not be accredited to him, but a way to prove that hardwork can still prevail in America and under a communist society. Maybe that is his incentive for trying…

… :o

Tg
don’t think I’m arguing with you, I don’t have an argumentative tone while I’m writing (YOU). I can see we are agreeing on many issues. however the benefits / drawbacks of communism isn’t/aren’t one of them. I feel strongly about hard work, dedication, and working for my goals. I see the belief that everything can be easy if we all just… as being contrary to those beliefs.

Let me ask, would you not work in a communist society?

@TG:

Let me ask, would you not work in a communist society?

i wouldn’t, if i get paid no matter what i do. let me ask you this. if right now, your boss told you that you could leave right now and go home, and you would still get paid the same amount, what would you do?!!? would you still sit in your cubicle wishing you were at home w/ your wife and kids? or would you go home and do nothing and still get paid? this is the way i think of communism. if i get paid no matter how much work i do, then i definitely won’t work!! it doesn’t take an idiot to figure that out

YANNY! you’re back! boy did I miss you- no really!

anyways -YES - I listened to EVERYTHING you guys say- and I value your input- although I don’t agree with much of it. russia was not stalanist, the revolution was under lenin- BUt I think I made my point.

Because you origanally said that these were not true communist countries- now you are saying only their rhetoric was communist (in a nut shell) and all I was saying was exactly that. the core of their politic was communist. I to do not believe communism can work either. nor do I believe that pure capitalism is good (SUPRISE)- case in point - labor laws- without them workers were abused. unfortunately the same dirty dogs who you’d alllow to enter your communes have degenerated a good thing into a serious problem for american industry.

I’ll respond to TG now- when I got confused about you and tm I was responding to you and then your brother started responding to me, very confusing.
also would I not work in a communist society? what motivation would I have? to avoid the roundy round about who is or who isn’t communist. lets just say that in countries where “quasi communism” has been tried the results left much for a man to desire. ask f_alk about the name of the cars they drove- trebbies or troglodytes something like that- they had the same make model and style for 20 years. and then there’s housing- you go on a list to wait for a government apartment. you go to your work like an automoton. it sounds pretty miserable to me. that’s all. I want goals, I want adventure, excitement… you know, all the things boys and girls grow up dreaming about. a chance for an even better life for my kid, where he has every oportunity to be anything from a rock star to a rocket scientist. no limits… that’s all.

and YANNY I don’t believe all the propaganda of the government- I just use that to get you stirred up. cause I can tell you are one of those conspiracy theory guys. you know… was it the mob, cuba, the russians, the fbi, cia or lbj??? :wink:
I just used the roswell thing to show that no matter what “facts” are given to you, you have already determined that GW is lying and the whole thing is just about fattening his wallet. NOT that I’m open minded…

and I also wanted one more responce to F_ALK:

the thing about the worker bees was just a frustrated attempt to show that I don’t hold rich people in contempt just because they are rich. judging by most of the grammar and fancy words many of you use, :wink: I’d guess that most of you come from at least upper middle class families. don’t resent your parent’s struggles or hold them in contempt because there are impoverished people in the word. communism isn’t the answer- social programs that take away my money aren’t the answer either. if you feel something must be done for the good of all, use your resources to make it happen. this is america- you can be as rich or poor as you want. and F_alk the queen bee is the most important bee, she organizes the hive, grows the hive, delegates roles for the various bee jobs (GUARDS< DRONES< ECT) she works- cleetus however was just a ficticious bee representation of my neighbor who soaks up disability for a supposed back injury. DOES ANYONE ELSE understand what I mean? the bee thing has now officially lost any hope of striking a cord.

man… it would stink having to tell your kid that he can’t try to be whatever he wants when grows up…
“hey dad! guess what? i wanna be an astronaut!”
“sorry son, you have to be a ditch digger, just like me”
“oh well, i guess i’ll just slack off when i grow up, just like you dad!”
“now you’re talkin son; now you’re talkin… hey, how about another game of A&A son?”
“shouldn’t you actually try working for once dad?”
“no way son, doesn’t make a difference anyway, i get paid the same”

now that is what i call a govermental system