Japan declaring war question

Anzac is automatically brought into war with Japan if you attack the UK and vice versa.  The US can only be at war if Japan makes an unprovoked declaration of war against UK or Anzac or if it is the end of their 3rd turn then they are automatically at war with Japan.  I believe I am correct on this but could use an expert’s opinion on this.

Any unprovoked declaration of war against an allied power by japan automaticly brings the united states into the war.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=16070.0  The errata by Kreig says if Japan makes an unprovoked attack on anybody but China all allies are immediately at war. The United States may not declare war on Japan unless Japan first declares war on it or makes an unprovoked declaration of war against the United Kingdom or ANZAC.  However, if the United States is still not at war with Japan by the Collect Income phase of its third turn, it may declare war on Japan at that time.  Representing a switch from a peacetime to wartime economy, the American player collects an additional 40 IPCs.  This wartime economy takes effect during the first U.S. turn in which it is at war with Japan, regardless of the event that triggered the state of war.

The United States may not declare war on Japan unless Japan first declares war on it or makes an unprovoked declaration of war against the United Kingdom or ANZAC

Ok, there is the exact wording

By the spirit of the rules……If Japan makes an unprovoked declaration war on any allied power (other than China, with whom it is already at war) then the United States is “obliged” to declare war.

Upon digesting what you are asking for specificly, which has also illuded everyone else in this thread becuase you didnt offer an example…“can US units block Japanese naval movement if Japan only declares war on ANZAC and UK?”

My answer (and I “suspect” Kreigs) would be “no”, by the letter of the rules. If Japan only declares war on UK and ANZAC on its turn, then US units remain neutral UNTILL their combat move phase, when the US may then officaly declare war.

So what you want to do is move units through the phillipines sea zone after declaring war on the UK and ANZAC, and leave the US units there intact.

@oztea:

The United States may not declare war on Japan unless Japan first declares war on it or makes an unprovoked declaration of war against the United Kingdom or ANZAC

Ok, there is the exact wording

By the spirit of the rules……If Japan makes an unprovoked declaration war on any allied power (other than China, with whom it is already at war) then the United States is “obliged” to declare war.

Upon digesting what you are asking for specificly, which has also illuded everyone else in this thread becuase you didnt offer an example…“can US units block Japanese naval movement if Japan only declares war on ANZAC and UK?”

My answer (and I “suspect” Kreigs) would be “no”, by the letter of the rules. If Japan only declares war on UK and ANZAC on its turn, then US units remain neutral UNTILL their combat move phase, when the US may then officaly declare war.

So what you want to do is move units through the phillipines sea zone after declaring war on the UK and ANZAC, and leave the US units there intact.

what kind of bnullshit are you mentioning?
if what you say is true i’m making my own AAA, with more logical units

'oh, look; japanese zero’s are attacking british units, who are our allies. Let’s waith a round for official reasons!

almost as BS as ‘planes can’t scramble on non-islands’

Yes, it does block.

Unless UK/ANZAC declared war on Japan first, if Japan declares war on UK then it is declaring war on all Allied players, including USA. If however UK/ANZAC did declare war on Japan first, Japan can retaliate without bringing USA into the conflict. Let’s assume the former is the case, because that’s what it sounds like happened.

When Japan declares war, it does so at the beginning of the combat phase, before you move units to their respective combats. At that moment all units of powers with which you are at war immediately become hostile. Thus, the USA destroyer is hostile and successfully blocks your fleet.

Cheers,
tcpj

Looking for loopholes in the rules is not the way of DOOM!

An unprovoked declaration of war by Japan against any allied power should be considered to be a declaration of war against them all, and would have been using the political rules in the book.

But the replacement political situation in the errata contains no rule that says an unprovoked declaration of war by Japan against UK/ANZAC automatically brings the US into the war. So, it doesn’t. The US would still be considered neutral until they declare war on their turn. Japan is free to ignore the US units.

If this wasn’t intended, it will be easy to fix in the next FAQ update.

Or we could wait to see what Krieg says…

logically thinking (…) would say US is at war at once
but then again, logically thinking would have produced 6 japanese tactical bombers instead of 12 and planes not able to scramble on non-islands

@Gwlachmai:

Or we could wait to see what Krieg says…

I’m pretty sure Krieg HAS answered this a few weeks ago, but I don’t have the energy to go searching through it from a random thread.  I’m 99% sure that he confirmed that the US ship WILL block, as declaring war unprovoked on the UK/Anzac is a declaration of war on the US as well, which isn’t stated like that specifically in the FAQ, but should be.

@kcdzim:

@Gwlachmai:

Or we could wait to see what Krieg says…

I’m pretty sure Krieg HAS answered this a few weeks ago, but I don’t have the energy to go searching through it from a random thread.  I’m 99% sure that he confirmed that the US ship WILL block, as declaring war unprovoked on the UK/Anzac is a declaration of war on the US as well, which isn’t stated like that specifically in the FAQ, but should be.

It may have been addressed before, I’ve only read the last couple weeks worth of posts here. I am a bit curious though as to what the official ruling is. I tend to agree that the ship would block, but, I haven’t seen this question addressed before, so I can understand why Jim would want an official ruling.

@Yoper:

Put this together with the point that if Japan declares war on the UK/ANZAC, it automatically declares war on the US.  Doing this would cause the ships to be in the way.

The only way that Japan can be at war with the UK/ANZAC without being at war with the US is if the UK/ANZAC player declares war on the Japanese first.

Where is the rule that if Japan declares war on the UK/ANZAC it automatically declares war on the US?

It’s in the rule book in a section that was entirely replaced by errata that does not contain it anymore.

If they were automatically at war, there would be no reason to give the US the ability to declare war on Japan when Japan makes an unprovoked declaration against the UK/ANZAC, since they would already be at war anyway.