Attacking Subs: sneaky or not?

[General_D.Fox]

Ok, so I’ve been having trouble answering this question even when I play FTF.  Can attacking subs still get to do a sneak shot when attacking and then do another attack as their regular shooting?  Or is it, the sub attacks first when attacking, and if it hits anything that ship is DOA and gone before the rest of the attack commences?  Because even watching some of these tourney games, I’m slightly unsure.

[Baghdaddy]

@General_D.Fox:

Ok, so I’ve been having trouble answering this question even when I play FTF.  Can attacking subs still get to do a sneak shot when attacking and then do another attack as their regular shooting?  Or is it, the sub attacks first when attacking, and if it hits anything that ship is DOA and gone before the rest of the attack commences?  Because even watching some of these tourney games, I’m slightly unsure.

Using LHTR:

Subs do a sneak shot each round of combat.  Any ship sunk by the submarine is removed from the battle board before the regular round EXCEPT if the opposing player has a destroyer.  If the opposing player has a destroyer the sunk ship can return fire before being removed.

quote LHTR rules:
"Sneak Attack: Submarines always fire in the opening fire step, whether on attack or defense. They can fire only on sea units. Casualties from this attack will be destroyed before they can return fire, unless an enemy destroyer is present on the battle board. (Any sea or air unit can hit a submarine.)

Destroyers and Submarine Casualties
If a destroyer is present on the battle board in a combat involving enemy submarines, the destroyer’s player skips this step. The
submarines’ casualties can fire back at the normal time in the combat sequence, provided they have not already fired in step 2. (The
destroyers provided enough advance warning to allow return fire.)

[General_D.Fox]

Alrighty, thanks for your help.

[Guest]

Yep, ONLY one shot, not one and one.

But that shot is ALWAYS before any other shots are fired, even if the enemy so hit gets to return fire because of a DST being present.

[frimmel]

I like to think of it like AA fire only it happens every round of combat. If there were flying destroyers your planes would still get to shoot.

[Guest]

And then Rockets would be Kaitens in the sky…  :mrgreen:

[Cobert]

Ive played all of my games where they get to fire opening fire every round, until my last game when somebody told me I was wrong and that they fire only the first round in opening fire, which is a bit more logical.

[newpaintbrush]

Subs in the old edition only got one round of opening fire, if I remember correctly.

In Revised, subs get opening fire EVERY ROUND.

They do NOT get opening fire and regular fire.  Just opening fire.

[General_D.Fox]

Okay, so subs fire the very first thing and once per round and their kill doesn’t return fire and dies - unless there is a destroyer present and then the hit enemy ship gets to return fire.  Am I understanding that and summing it up correctly?

[dezrtfish]

Correctamundo

[rjclayton]

@newpaintbrush:

Subs in the old edition only got one round of opening fire, if I remember correctly.

Actually, in classic, the attacking subs shoot in opening fire every round, defending subs never shoot in opening fire.

[frimmel]

@General_D.Fox:

Okay, so subs fire the very first thing and once per round and their kill doesn’t return fire and dies - unless there is a destroyer present and then the hit enemy ship gets to return fire.  Am I understanding that and summing it up correctly?

Unless it is one sub on a battleship or two or more subs that only score one hit. Battleships always need two hits. I mention this because it always seems to get asked when talking about this rule.

[newpaintbrush]

@rjclayton:

@newpaintbrush:

Subs in the old edition only got one round of opening fire, if I remember correctly.

Actually, in classic, the attacking subs shoot in opening fire every round, defending subs never shoot in opening fire.

It’s been a few years.