Two rules questions

[Bentley Priory]

I’m a bit embarrassed to be unclear about this first question as I’ve been playing A&A forever but reading elsewhere on these forums I want something made clear to me:

When submarines attack and there is no defending destroyer, any defending submarines (along with other warship casualties) chosen as casualties are immediately removed from the battle with no chance to roll a defence roll, yes? I know that surviving defending subs roll before the rest of the attacker’s ships roll, but just wanted to be clear that defending sub casualties on a sneak attack do not get to roll back before removal.

My second question is, for Europe 1940 2nd Ed, if no Axis power declares war on it, the USA is still considered neutral for all of turn 3 up until the last phase of its turn, yes? So the US has limited neutral unit movement until turn 4, even though it can begin collecting National Objective income at the conclusion of its 3rd turn?

Thanks.

[ColonelCarter]

@Bentley:

When submarines attack and there is no defending destroyer, any defending submarines (along with other warship casualties) chosen as casualties are immediately removed from the battle with no chance to roll a defence roll, yes? I know that surviving defending subs roll before the rest of the attacker’s ships roll, but just wanted to be clear that defending sub casualties on a sneak attack do not get to roll back before removal.

It depends. If the attacker has no destroyers in the attack, then the defending subs also get a sneak attack–they will roll dice even if they die to attacking subs, because they are in the same “priority phase” as each other, just like normal ships get to fire back when normal ships kill them. If you do have a destroyer in the attack, then it nullifies the defending subs’ sneak attack ability–they will roll dice with the rest of the defending “normal” ships, and if they die to attacking sub sneak attack, be removed before firing.

@Bentley:

My second question is, for Europe 1940 2nd Ed, if no Axis power declares war on it, the USA is still considered neutral for all of turn 3 up until the last phase of its turn, yes? So the US has limited neutral unit movement until turn 4, even though it can begin collecting National Objective income at the conclusion of its 3rd turn?

Thanks.

Correct. The US can (I don’t think they technically have to) declare war right before its Collect Income phase of Round 3 if it hasn’t been attacked yet. If it doesn’t (no reason not to though), I think they can only do it during the normal time at the start of their turns.

[Bentley Priory]

Thanks– the submarine interaction makes sense. And re the US, I realized it’s right in the rulebook talking about the political situation, don’t know how I missed it before. But thanks for the clarification.

[MarshmallowofWar]

@Bentley:

I’m a bit embarrassed to be unclear about this first question as I’ve been playing A&A forever but reading elsewhere on these forums I want something made clear to me:

When submarines attack and there is no defending destroyer, any defending submarines (along with other warship casualties) chosen as casualties are immediately removed from the battle with no chance to roll a defence roll, yes? I know that surviving defending subs roll before the rest of the attacker’s ships roll, but just wanted to be clear that defending sub casualties on a sneak attack do not get to roll back before removal.

My second question is, for Europe 1940 2nd Ed, if no Axis power declares war on it, the USA is still considered neutral for all of turn 3 up until the last phase of its turn, yes? So the US has limited neutral unit movement until turn 4, even though it can begin collecting National Objective income at the conclusion of its 3rd turn?

Thanks.

Both of your statements are correct.

Marsh

[ampdrive]

Regarding attacking/defending subs,don’t want to complicate things,but,if attacker has no destroyer the defennding player can choose to keep some or all of his subs hidden.Might be better to use them in counter-attack.

[Bentley Priory]

Yes for sure, makes sense if you want to counterattack on your turn (if you are the defender in this situation).