Some questions

[AA]

Hi all,

It seems as though every time we sit down and play new questions come up!
We are still playing our first game and most things are running pretty smoothly but a couple of issues have been raised:

1. I am sure the answer to this is NO (I couldn’t find the literature in the rule book) but my friend wanted me to ask as he thinks I am wrong:

Can a unit be involved in more than one battle in multiple territories even if it is within that unit’s move?
For example, a FTR has a move of 4. Can it attack an adjacent territory and if it wins can it then attack another adjacent territory provided it is all within its move?
Is it true to say that once a unit has done either one of the 3 things below that unit cannot attack again on that turn?

1. Gets killed (obvious)
2. Retreats
3. Wins

2. Is an aircraft the only piece that does not move into a territory that has just been captured when combat is won?
(ie) All other units in combat must move except for aircraft (FTR and BOMBERS)?

3. Can you attack and capture from Trans-Jordan to Anglo-Egypt and vice versa with land units or does the canal prevent this?

4. Page 13 (bottom right paragraph) of the rule book states that you cannot load or offload a transport in a territory that is adjacent to a hostile sea zone unless that sea zone has a submerged submarine in it. I understand what this means and reading it literally makes me think the answer to my question is NO but it doesn’t seem to make any sense so I’d like to know how you guys handle it:
If I am the US and am in Sea Zone 63 with a transport and some infanrty on board and want to offload my transport in Alaska (which I control) but there is a German battleship in Sea Zone 64 am I allowed to do it?
Is there a change in this rule if I am about to undertake an amphibious assault (ie say the Japanese control Alaska and I want to attack) but the German battleship is in Sea Zone 64?

5. In relation to an amphibious assault and shore bombardment and assuming I have a battleship present in the same sea zone when I am offloading my transport:

5.1 Can any enemy land units fire at (and theoretically sink) my battleship or is the battleship “protected” in the shore bombardement from firing land units or aircraft in the territory I am offloading to?

5.2 Can the battleship fire again and again (in the second and third rounds of battle) against enemey land units and aircraft if not all of them are killed in the first round of battle or does the battleship only fire on the opening round of battle?

5.3 Can a battleship only fire at land units in shore bombardement? (ie if the enemy units were only aircraft could my battleship fire at them or would it only by my land units being offloaded that could fire at the aircraft?) If not, can my battleship take hits from the enemy aircraft or is it “protected”?

6. This is an interesting one and I am probably wrong but it continues from another thread about AA guns firing on aircraft in non combat moves. In that thread it was agreed that AA guns cannot fire on an aircraft after it has attacked a target and is flying to a friendly territory (even if it overflies enemy AA’s) because that is part of the aircraft’s non combat move.

Please correct me if I am wrong (with reasons of course  :-P) but I was under the impression that it is still (technically) that aircraft’s combat move as it flies to a friendly territory after combat and as such is exposed to enemy AA gun fire. My reason for thinking it is still the combat move is because:

1. A non combat move can only be performed by units that have not been involved in combat or moved in combat (which the aircraft clearly has). (This is stated on Page 21, the top of the middle column)
2. This move after combat that the aircraft is performing is described on page 18 (very left hand column called “Completing an Air Unit’s Move”) and is in the CONDUCT COMBAT phase of the rule book.
Is anybody able to shed any light on this?

Thanks again  :-)

[Guest]

1.  No.  No unit can be inviolved in mor ethan 1 combat in a single turn.

2.  Correct.  AF are prohibited form landing in newly captured territory.  Any land units that participated in the battle MUST remain in the territory.  Other land units that did NOT engage in combat that turn CAN be moved into the newly captured territory in non-combat movement.

3.  Yes, land units can cross the canals w/o transports

4.  The phrasing was clarified in later editions of hte rules.  The “adjacent sea zone” means you can’t offload from a SZ that is hostile… you have to win the battle in the SZ before you can offload troops.

5.  The BB cannot be hit by defender fire.  The BB fires only ONCE at the start of the first round of combat.  The BB can hit ANY unit in the land territory, but the defender chooses what is hit.

6.  Aircraft are engaging in combat movement on the way TO battle, and of course they are engaged in combat over the territory they are attacking.  Thus on the way in, and for the battle itself, they CAN be hit by AA fire.  But after the battle, they “hover” until all combat is resolved, then in the non-combat phase of movement they fly to their landing area, and for that part of movement the AA guns do NOT fire since there is no combat in the non-combat phase of the move.

You may want to switch to using the Larry Harris Tournament Rules instead of the Operations Manual that comes with the game.  Many of the things that are unclear (or just plain wrong) in the OM are corrected in LHTR.  You can find tha trule-set here
http://www.dicey.net/revised/viewtopic.php?t=92

[AA]

Thanks guys - this makes sense. Just a clarification on Q4 and Q5.

Apologies - I am not sure if you (ncscswitch) understood exactly what I meant in Q4.

From Shadowhawks’ answer I understand that as the US I can’t load or offload from Sea Zone 63 to Alaska without destroying the German battleship in Sea Zone 64. (Note that the German battleship is in a different sea Zone to where I am offloading from which I think is the misunderstanding by ncscswitch. Hence I am not undertaking the sea combat portion of an amphibious attack just wanting to know whether I can load/offload).

Can I conduct an amphibious assault from Sea Zone 63 to Alaska (assuming Alaska is enemy controlled) with a German battleship is Sea Zone 64 or must the German battleship be destroyed first?

Q5: The reason I asked whether it was land units only that could be hit by battleships during bombardment in an amphibious attack is because this is what it says on page 15 (bottom of right hand column - “If there are no land units present ignore this step and leave the battleships on the board”). Is the firing on aircraft by battleships (in contradiction to this rule) a LHTR modification?

By the way the link to the LHTR doesn’t seem to be working.

Thanks.

[Guest]

That “adjacent SZ” thing is confusing I admit, that is why it was clarified in later rules.

SZ64 has NOTHING to do with what you do in SZ63, and you can land in either Alaska or WCan form SZ63 without destroying teh BB in SZ64 first.

[Guest]

And on the other point… the FIGs ARE land units, as in they are in a LAND territory, thus they CAN be hit by BB shots.

[Nightmare]

I agree with you in all points except 6. which is IMO a logical nonsense if you act as the rules tell you. For Example: There are enemy Bombers flying over Berlin, but the Germans can´t fire at them, because the Bombers have been bombing Rome and are now “just” on their way home. They fliy over hunreds of German AAs, but no one fires, because the fight is already over.  :-D :-o :?
This would be quite strange, if it occured in WW2.

[Guest]

It is a game design issue… and it makes as much (or more) sense than attacking a contested sea zone (one with both enemy and allied ships present) that your alliles are miraculously absent during your attack, even though there ships are right there with you in the same sea zone.  The main argument made against that was that the allied ships are never placed on the Battle Board, and thus cannot participate in the battle.

Or as much sense that a defender cannot retreat.
Or that you can’t violate Neutrals
Or that you can collect income from newly captured territory but can;t land AF there.

[Nightmare]

@ncscswitch:

It is a game design issue… and it makes as much (or more) sense than attacking a contested sea zone (one with both enemy and allied ships present) that your alliles are miraculously absent during your attack, even though there ships are right there with you in the same sea zone.  The main argument made against that was that the allied ships are never placed on the Battle Board, and thus cannot participate in the battle.

Or as much sense that a defender cannot retreat.
Or that you can’t violate Neutrals
Or that you can collect income from newly captured territory but can;t land AF there.

Yes but the other things make at least sense, because of the games´ balance.
But rules are rules.

[AA]

Thanks guys for the help.

I have just downloaded the LHTR and will read through them.
It looks like the differences are quite subtle and only applicable to some rules.

Is it valid to assume that all questions related to A&A (Revised) will be answered according to LHTR?
Or do most people play by the rules in the rule book that you get with the game?

[SSG Rock]

Most people play LHTR, because it clarifies some of the sticky points in the OM rules. :wink:

[AA]

Cool, I’ll stick to LHTR then!  :-D

[Guest]

LHTR is far more complete.  But I would not go so far as to say that it will answer ALL of your questions :-)

And LHTR seems to be pretty much “The” standard for online play, at least from what I have seen.

[AA]

At this stage I am only playing board games (not online).

Surely LHTR do not cover all the rules - that are there are still parts of the games that the rule book do not clarify which means you have to make things up….