Aircraft movement question…

[Botider]

Need clarification on aircraft movement … can a fighter exhaust it’s entire movement alotment (4 spaces) to get to a sea zone for a sea battle as long as there is a carrier in the same sea zone, e.g., a fighter takes off from French Indo-China, flies to SZ30 (4 spaces) to participate in a battle. A carrier moves into the sea zone to fight in the battle also. Legal?

[U-505]

Yes, you may. I’ll let you. :-D

Actually, the carrier doesn’t even have to participate in the attack as long as it will reach sz30 in non-combat.

[Guest]

And believe it or not, you can do this even if your own carrier can;t reach but an allied carrier can before the end of the turn (completion of US’s move).

So, UK can fly out 4 spaces to attack at sea, with no UK carrier even in existence… so long as the US comits to sending THEIR carrier that is 2 spaces away in to retrieve those planes in the US’s move.

[Botider]

Thanks guys.

[Botider]

Oh, one other clarification …
Rules say that the sea zone and a group of islands within that sea zone are considered one space. Use Borneo for example … If a plane is flying TO Borneo, if it reaches SZ37 with its final movement point, can it land on Borneo, or does it take 1 more movement point to actually land on the island?

[Guest]

Getting on or off an island or any coastal territory is a move.

So to fly from Solomons to land on Wake is 3 moves eventhough the SZ are adjacent.

[Botider]

Thanks, Switch …

[jsp4563]

@ncscswitch:

And believe it or not, you can do this even if your own carrier can;t reach but an allied carrier can before the end of the turn (completion of US’s move).

So, UK can fly out 4 spaces to attack at sea, with no UK carrier even in existence… so long as the US comits to sending THEIR carrier that is 2 spaces away in to retrieve those planes in the US’s move.

really, I’ve never seen that one before.  Doesn’t it violate the rule that planes have to land somewhere at the end of non-combat movement with the exception of a carrier to be built in the seazone the planes are hovering in?  Can you site the rule, I want to use this against my friend (it will totaly blow him away) but he’s gonna want proof.

[Guest]

It is a variable interpretation of the OM rules from page 21.

There was some discussion regarding it a few months ago, but no “official” ruling.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=5690.0

[U-505]

jsp,

It is clarified in LHTR. On page 18 under the heading “Air Units” it states:

" If ther is any question about whether an attack is a “suicide run”, then in the combat move phase, you must declare, prior to rolling any battles, some possible way ( however remote the possibility is) for all your attacking air units to land safely that turn".

If the UK is going to have a hanging fighter, it has to find a way to land it on UK’s turn.

If you’re playing out of the box rules, it might be worth taking a shot, though.

[jsp4563]

We play LHTR (whatever the latest version is…currently 1.3).

Having thought about it some more, it seems an unworkabel rule.  To many variables come into play between the end of the fighters turn & the allied turn where the carrier is suppose to collect the fighters.

[Guest]

Personally, I am NOT fond of the “land sometime before the end of the US’s move” interpretation.

LHTR does prevent ANY potential interpretation that would allow for that in that it does specify that all aircraft must land in non combat movement phase.

But… it is an OM rule interpretation that has come up before, so I figured I would mention it :-)

[JamesG]

@ncscswitch:

And believe it or not, you can do this even if your own carrier can;t reach but an allied carrier can before the end of the turn (completion of US’s move).

So, UK can fly out 4 spaces to attack at sea, with no UK carrier even in existence… so long as the US comits to sending THEIR carrier that is 2 spaces away in to retrieve those planes in the US’s move.
.
.
It is a variable interpretation of the OM rules from page 21.

There was some discussion regarding it a few months ago, but no “official” ruling.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=5690.0
.
.
But… it is an OM rule interpretation that has come up before, so I figured I would mention it :-)

Looking at that thread it was an interpretation of an OM rule that one guy had, and pretty much nobody agreed it was the correct interpretation.  At the very least you should have presented it as a highly questionable interpretation from the outset, instead of presenting it as THE RULE.

And further reading of the OM would show that it is NOT the correct interpretation:

@OM:

Your aircraft carrier can move to a sea zone where one of your fighters has ended its move (and in fact, it must do so) but cannot move any farther that turn.

The wording on page 27 makes it clear that it is YOUR carrier that MUST pick up YOUR fighters, despite the ambiguous wording on page 21.

[Guest]

I will defer to your expertise on the OM.  I was relating something half remembered from that discussion originally.

Almost from the beginning, I learned LHTR so that I could play online.

[DarthMaximus]

What is the ruling if the ftr moves 4 then wishes to retreat???

Land battles this is legal for tanks, they move 2 to Mos and then can retreat (with all other units), and they can even “leap frog a territory”.

So here is the naval scenerio, a ftr attacks (moves 4) and there IS a Carrier present for the landing if the battle is won, however the battle goes badly in rd 1 and they wish to retreat.  Can the ftr that moved 4 retreat and land on the AC in an adjacent sz?

I’m talking strictly a naval battle (no amphib).  Something like:

Defender: 2 subs, 2 trns, 1 dd, 1 bb

Attacker:  2 subs, 1 trn, 1 ac, 3 ftrs (1 ftr moved 1 and can land on an island, 1 ftr moved 3 can land on ac, 1 ftr moved 4 to get to battle and must land on ac), 2 bom.

So the attacker whiffs, and the defender gets 3 hits, boms and 1 ftr retreat to land on a nearby island but can you then retreat the 4 moved ftr with the ac to the adjacent sz?

The result is a 5 move ftr, similar to the 3 move tank.

[Guest]

Yes, in that situation, the FIG can retreat, increasing movement to 5, to land on the retreating AC.

It could NOT though retreat from the SZ to an adjacent SZ, then onto the island in that SZ (that would be 6 moves).

[Guest]

I stand corrected…

LHTR 1.3 under “Step 7:  Press Attack or Retreat”

Air Units:

When you designate that an air unit will retreat, return it to the game board battle site. It will retreat as a noncombat move when all other air units finish their moves in the noncombat move phase. Air units can retreat to any friendly territory within their total movement range. A fighter can retreat to a friendly aircraft carrier or to a friendly sea zone, as long as a carrier moves there this turn.