@Panther WILD BILL
less than a minute ago
Thanks Panther, for pointing out the rule’s clarification doc.
Violating Neutrality
-
@ncscswitch:
The Brazil Run is attempted when the Pacific is vacant of US ships (they are eitehr sunk, or went to the Atlantic).
It is an annoyance move for Japan to execute in a KGF game.
Problem then is I have to dedicate a transport and 2 infantry (14 IPCs) on a 6 round mission instead of shuffling infantry into Asia. 6 rounds = 12 infantry potentially lost to teh Russian campaign.
-
Jennifer, do you bother to take Australia and New Zealand as Japan, then?
If so, you need to dedicate a transport and at least one infantry to that cause already, before even considering Brazil. The infantry that you use there are usually pulled from an island that is not reachable within 1 turn to get to Asia anyway, so it’s misleading to count the cost of that infantry in your analysis. Therefore the total expenditure is 8 IPCs (the transport) to gain 3 IPCs of income for sure (AUS and NZE) and either 3 IPCs of income (Brazil) for a turn or two before the US retakes it, or at minimum the ability to distract the US from its purely atlantic campaign and the possibility of diverting to Madagascar (1 IPC which can theoretically be taken in the same turn Brazil would have). Once you take NZE, heading east to Brazil/Madagascar is probably the next best choice unless circumstances dictate otherwise.
If you DON’T take AUS/NZE, I have to ask why not? You are giving the UK 3 free IPCs per turn and costing the Axis 3 => net effect of 6 IPCs difference. Sure it requires the initial 8 IPC investment of the transport but that pays off in two turns easily. It’s especially potent if you are trying to threaten M84, since those are much needed IPCs that can swing the balance in your favor. Add to that the above possibilities of what to do with that transport afterwards and you can see it’s definitely not a wasted effort.
-
Actually, no, I don’t. I usually focus primarily on Moscow and leave the islands be. After all, it would be much more efficient to take Hawaii then Aus/NZE or Brazil and I never take that either…not unless America’s being a jerk and building navy, then I use it as an air base.
-
She brings up a good point…the best way to get the US out of a naval buildup is to go heavy against Russia. One of my favorite techniques is to build infantry for the first 4 turns while building factories, NO transports, then switch on turn 5 to all armor production for a Dethstryke around turn 8. If the US is messing with a navy in the Pacific then it should take them until about then to really get going. Ultimately the loss of Borneo, New Guinea, Okinawa, and even the East Indies won’t matter that much but Moscow always will and certainly if it is taken by the Japanese.
-
I DID say it was cost-prohibitive :-P
Although, against a non-master class opponent, the Brazil strike can be VERY beneficial.
Also, it does not take 6 moves, even starting from Japan. 2 moves take Panama. Then sail through, grab West Indies on turn 3, Brazil on 4.
Or, from New Zealand only 2 more to Brazil, then one to land in western Africa…
-
Turkey is the bizamm. I violate it ecvery game on teh first turn with an ARM. The arm can take two British territories resulting in a 4 point flip on round two. It can then threaten an unoccupied Russian teritory. Meet up with a German landing force into russian territory. Or double back into Africa. England will be hard pressed to spare even a single infantry from teh battle with Japan, and there is no way Russia can afford to send unit down. Also the TP move blociks off the British sub retreat north, and the TP will not be targetted by any ruusian with any sense. Turkey is KEY.
-
A;so to jump ion on the Japan debate. Whether to take New Zealand and Australia really depends on how GErmany is doing in Africa. In general you want teh UK to be at 20 IPC. You really need to go no lower. I am assuming here that the UK player bought an IC in INdia first turn supported by a U.S. IC in SINkiang. 20 prevents a 4 INF, 2ARM buy. ANy less than twenty isn’t all that worth while. The idea is simply to cut off their tank supply in India so they can no longer counter attacj the Japanese so that the Japanese can take Sinkiang.
-
That isn’t to say that well timed bombimg run when they are at twenty wouldn’t do allot of good right before the Japanese roll into India. The Brits will be put in the poistion of abandoning pressure in Europe for a turn to fortify a possibly lost cause or to abandon an IC. Tough descision.
-
@ncscswitch:
I DID say it was cost-prohibitive :-P
Although, against a non-master class opponent, the Brazil strike can be VERY beneficial.
Also, it does not take 6 moves, even starting from Japan. 2 moves take Panama. Then sail through, grab West Indies on turn 3, Brazil on 4.
Or, from New Zealand only 2 more to Brazil, then one to land in western Africa…
I think you’re math is a bit off. Japan to Hawaii is move one. Hawaii to Argentina with invasion is move two. Argentina back to Hawaii is move 3. Hawaii back to Japan is move 4.
That’s an opportunity cost of 8 infantry you could have moved into Asia for the loss of 3 IPCs invading Argentina and the gain of 3 IPCs a turn until recaptured for Brazil.
Now, I do agree that in a game with lesser experienced players, I’ll go for options like this. 1) It shows them what can be done. 2) It’s more dynamic then going with a “tight” game. 3) I get bored if the game goes too easy. 4) They never play me again if I truelly whollop them hard!
-
I stand corrected, you are right, SUD. You could purchase a replacement transport to soak up the loss of moving one to Argentina. I just normally like to keep efficient and only have the number of transports I need to do the job without extras if I can avoid it.
Then again, in classic, you could very well need that extra transport once you exceed maximum capacity. (Not as much of a threat in revised since Japan will rarely need more then 4 transports to move 100% of it’s builds from the island to the mainland, in my limited experience.)
-
Brazil is merely a nuissance move, nothing more. For this reason an analysis of it based upon economics is not really worthwhile. If for example the Japanese lost 2inf and a transport in exchange for just 1US infantry but it did something to the US gameplan then this would be worthwhile. So to me the question is how do you make Brazil as much of a wash as you can, and I still come back to columbia and armor in Panama. Yes the US will lose an arm probably but the cost is still good for the US and more importantly this is a reactive move so that when Japan invades Argentina the US invades Columbia, and if Japan pulls back you can go from Panama back to the WUS.
-
Yes, but if America ignores Brazil because it is cost prohibitive to them, at that moment (as in they need the cash to reinforce Europe nad can’t afford Brazil atm) you could make some serious cash off it. 3 rounds = 9 IPC gain for Japan with the effect of 18 IPC gain for the Axis. (9 lost IPCs to the allies, 9 gained for the Axis.)
-
Which is why I said the means to cover that is to put 2arm in Panama, and violate Columbia when Japan moves to Argentina. This way Japan will not make any money off Brazil.
-
Jen,. forget violating neutrals in the Brazil strike.
Go via Panama (grabbing Hawaii, Panama and West Indies along the way).
Or take the Southern route and grab Australia, New Zealand and then Brazil.Either way, you are there in fewer than 6 moves. You start the move in J2, once you have TRNs to spare. Around J5 you are in Brazil and J6 you are landing in Western Africa.
Unless the Allies move to stop you… which is fewer forces against Germany (ALWAYS a good thing when playing the Axis :-) )
-
That might work, Switch, if you bring a sizable fleet with you. At least you could use your fleet against the Britianican (UK/USA) fleet and help keep them off Germany for a few rounds.
-
It can work without ANY fleet.
With a major fleet so far from home, you invite being wiped out with little gain.
-
Actually, I’d just hit the American fleet in it’s infancy (at least knock out that BB) and then return to Japan with the remnants. After all, you don’t actually need 1 AC and 2 BBs for Japan once you’ve decimated the American navy. You might even want to consider sacrificing the ships against the British fleet and follow it up with a luftwaffe attack to resink the British fleet.
Japan’s in the best position to rebuild a navy anyway. It’ll take America 3 rounds to attack her by sea. (1 round to build, 2 rounds to move) and there’s no way they’re going to do it in two rounds anyway, since they absolutely must build enough to take Japan and, as Japan, you’ll have plenty of time to put a few subs in the water to stop that.
So basically, the choice is, retreat into the Pac to support it and stop America from thinking about it or follow through after Pearl and try and hit the British fleet once.
It’s almost a non-issue if you play 2H BBs since you’ll get 4 BB shots at the british fleet, more then enough to cripple it. It’s a bigger question when you have to wonder if the Brits/Americans will sink them with their fighters before you get there.
-
Well Jennifer, you get to test your theory out against the maddog. It’s japans turn. What will you do? I’ll let you in on a military secret. I have no ambition whatsoever to send US resources to play with the jap navy. What I will do is gang up on the germans with a vengeance untill the germans cry for their mommy. What would you propose to do about that hypothetical situation? That would make them jap bb’s about worthless wouldn’t it?
-
The U.S. need not take Japan. All they have to do is take the islands. This created a large swing. If the Japanese want to take them back they either have to split their navy or vacate the Japanese SZ. If they vacate the Japanese SZ, they have lost their ability to transport infantry to the mainland and the Allies I.C. should finish off the Japanese. The U.S. really only need 2-3 Subs, 1FIG, 1AC, 1BB, and 1 TP to cause serious problems for the Japanese in the Pacific. The subs can often split off form the main fleet as Japan can rarely spare the sorties to try and sink them and doing so requires fully manning their AC which pulls FIGS from the mainland…
-
One question- while the U.S. is farting around in the pacific taking islands, where’s the pressure on germany??
Suggested Topics
