USA play for Advanced players (help)

[Pherman1215]

Hey guys. I am a very experienced A&A player and have played a great deal of revised and global against high level competition.  But for the life of me i can’t nail down a reliable strategy with USA in global.  My UK and Russia are strong and I feel I could win some games with the Allies if I can even just be average with USA.  The biggest problem I have is I am schooled originally in revised which the golden rule in revised with USA is choose either Pacific or Atlantic and put 100% of your muscle in that theater.  That doesn’t work in global and I’m having difficulty generating an effective and balanced attack.  Here is what I normally do with USA:

80% Pac/20% Europe
1. Rounds 1-2 secure Hawaii and New South Wales so Japan can not grab them.
2. Rounds 2-3 Once at war in Europe I try and get a carrier in SZ 92 supported by a UK air base in Gibraltar in order to deny Italy’s Med bonus. 
3. Rounds 4-5 I sink what remains of the Italian fleet and get my subs into position in SZ 97 to convoy Italy.
4. Rounds 6+ begin trading Java/Borneo/Celebes/Sumatra with Japan in attempt to save India.  (2 things happen here. Either Japan wins the Island exchange or I have to dump so many resources to taking the islands that Germany and Italy break lose in Europe.)

I find that I lose whichever theater I don’t focus on with the USA.  If I go Pac heavy I lose Moscow or Egypt.  If I go Europe heavy I lose India and Japan gets lose in the Pacific.  Does anyone have any tips that might help with USA?

[Young Grasshopper]

@Pherman1215:

Hey guys. I am a very experienced A&A player and have played a great deal of revised and global against high level competition.  But for the life of me i can’t nail down a reliable strategy with USA in global.  My UK and Russia are strong and I feel I could win some games with the Allies if I can even just be average with USA.  The biggest problem I have is I am schooled originally in revised which the golden rule in revised with USA is choose either Pacific or Atlantic and put 100% of your muscle in that theater.  That doesn’t work in global and I’m having difficulty generating an effective and balanced attack.  Here is what I normally do with USA:

80% Pac/20% Europe
1. Rounds 1-2 secure Hawaii and New South Wales so Japan can not grab them.
2. Rounds 2-3 Once at war in Europe I try and get a carrier in SZ 92 supported by a UK air base in Gibraltar in order to deny Italy’s Med bonus. 
3. Rounds 4-5 I sink what remains of the Italian fleet and get my subs into position in SZ 97 to convoy Italy.
4. Rounds 6+ begin trading Java/Borneo/Celebes/Sumatra with Japan in attempt to save India.  (2 things happen here. Either Japan wins the Island exchange or I have to dump so many resources to taking the islands that Germany and Italy break lose in Europe.)

I find that I lose whichever theater I don’t focus on with the USA.  If I go Pac heavy I lose Moscow or Egypt.  If I go Europe heavy I lose India and Japan gets lose in the Pacific.  Does anyone have any tips that might help with USA?

Hello Pherman,

Your problem is our problem, that’s why there are so many house rule discussions. Most of us have given up on trying to compete with dominate Axis strategies that can’t seem to be countered, if the Allies win it’s never legit the way the rules demand, it’s because the Axis made a fatal error, or the dice gods crucified them. Either way, the Allies almost never win against experienced players playing the Axis, at least not wins that they earn due to strategy.

[McX]

I don’t seem to have the same problems and haven’t ever felt the need to incorporate bids, OOB is how I have always played, and the Allies have an excellent record against the Axis, and it’s all due to the US.

US strategy is entirely dependent on how the Axis goes about starting the war,but generally speaking I focus more on Europe since I find it’s easier to defend the victory cities in Asia. But if Japan goes after Hawaii early I’ll go straight Pacific to defend Western US and Australia. The silver lining in that is it leaves UK Pacific with the ability to claim money islands and send units as necessary to the Middle East/Africa or possibly up to help Russia in the Caucasus region. If Japan doesn’t attack Hawaii I’ll slowly build a giant navy there anyways, eventually you’ll be able to outspend the Japanese even while fighting in Europe, and go in for the kill, claim that seazone around Japan (6 is it?) and then Japan’s done. You have to be disciplined to keep units in Hawaii longterm and resist the temptation to have adventures around the money islands except for a couple planes and the occasion sub or transport.

My Europe strategy depends on how bad the Axis player wants Gibraltar. If he starts parking German planes there I’ll build UK units in Canada and fighter units to scramble in London, send US navy up to Canada with several transports and then park everyone off Ireland/London in anticipation of hitting Normandy/Holland, assuming you have enough naval units to survive an attack by the German navy/air force. Then I hit Normandy with everything and stay there, funnelling in land units, play D with Russia and eventually tear the Axis in half. If the Axis leaves Gibraltar open, then you can park there with enough force to survive Axis attacks, then of course hit the “soft underbelly” of Italy, or Normandy, Denmark, or wherever he’s weak. Just keep the navy together. It’s probably pretty obvious that you won’t win Europe if the German navy is strong enough to claim the English Channel and environs for the duration of the game.

It’s hard to win with the Axis against a good allied player, reason being it’s hard to effectively allocate resources between the Russian war and naval/air units needed to keep the British/Americans at bay. When I was in the service I overheard a British soldier say “If you have all the gear and no idea you must be an American.” You can’t be that guy - the US greatest advantage is its income (Bonuses). Spend it wisely, and give everyone a job.

[Noll]

USA is reactive. You can’t get any advice, it all depends on how you plan to play the other Allies and what the Axis powers are doing.

[Young Grasshopper]

@McX:

I don’t seem to have the same problems and haven’t ever felt the need to incorporate bids, OOB is how I have always played, and the Allies have an excellent record against the Axis, and it’s all due to the US.

US strategy is entirely dependent on how the Axis goes about starting the war,but generally speaking I focus more on Europe since I find it’s easier to defend the victory cities in Asia. But if Japan goes after Hawaii early I’ll go straight Pacific to defend Western US and Australia. The silver lining in that is it leaves UK Pacific with the ability to claim money islands and send units as necessary to the Middle East/Africa or possibly up to help Russia in the Caucasus region. If Japan doesn’t attack Hawaii I’ll slowly build a giant navy there anyways, eventually you’ll be able to outspend the Japanese even while fighting in Europe, and go in for the kill, claim that seazone around Japan (6 is it?) and then Japan’s done. You have to be disciplined to keep units in Hawaii longterm and resist the temptation to have adventures around the money islands except for a couple planes and the occasion sub or transport.

My Europe strategy depends on how bad the Axis player wants Gibraltar. If he starts parking German planes there I’ll build UK units in Canada and fighter units to scramble in London, send US navy up to Canada with several transports and then park everyone off Ireland/London in anticipation of hitting Normandy/Holland, assuming you have enough naval units to survive an attack by the German navy/air force. Then I hit Normandy with everything and stay there, funnelling in land units, play D with Russia and eventually tear the Axis in half. If the Axis leaves Gibraltar open, then you can park there with enough force to survive Axis attacks, then of course hit the “soft underbelly” of Italy, or Normandy, Denmark, or wherever he’s weak. Just keep the navy together. It’s probably pretty obvious that you won’t win Europe if the German navy is strong enough to claim the English Channel and environs for the duration of the game.

It’s hard to win with the Axis against a good allied player, reason being it’s hard to effectively allocate resources between the Russian war and naval/air units needed to keep the British/Americans at bay. When I was in the service I overheard a British soldier say “If you have all the gear and no idea you must be an American.” You can’t be that guy - the US greatest advantage is its income (Bonuses). Spend it wisely, and give everyone a job.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=26960.0

[knp7765]

In most of our games that ended in Allied wins, the US goes primarily Pacific. Especially if Germany forgoes Sealion. In this case, the US will usually send some bombers over to England to help the UK SBR German factories and destroyers in the Atlantic to help battle German subs.
Most of the rest of the US money will go to warships and planes in the Pacific.
The main objective is to capture SZ 6 to convoy raid Japan into the poor house. This happens after one of the following:
A > The US Navy has battled it out with the Japanese Navy and destroyed them.
B > The US Navy has destroyed a good part of the Japanese Navy and the rest of the Japanese Navy is too far south. Usually, the US will have a strong enough navy left in SZ 6 that what is left of the Japanese Navy would not dare attack it.

Also, the US will often take Iwo Jima as a bomber base so they can pound the Japanese factory and other facilities. It can get to a point where even if Japan is making decent money, like if they still have the DEI, they won’t be able to build anything because they have to keep repairing the factory.
When it gets to this point, Japan will be nearly neutralized. Then the US can shift their income and start putting more in the Atlantic, like building an invasion fleet, but you will still have to send a bomber over to Iwo every so often to keep up the Bomber fleet and keep Japan’s factory damaged.
Hopefully, UK will have been able to harass Germany and Italy enough, and Russia will have been able to hold off the German assault enough so that Russia is still in the game and a lot of German resources are spent that direction. Soon, the US will be able to make a big landing somewhere, backed up by the UK, and Germany will start feeling the pressure. Either Germany will keep spending toward Russia, which will make the US/UK’s job easier or Germany will switch funds to deal with the Western Allies which may give Russia a chance to start pushing the Germans back.

This isn’t a sure-fire victory recipe, but if done right it is usually how the Allies win in our games. If the US tries to split their money at or around 50/50, they end up not having enough in either theater to do enough good. I think the Pacific needs the US more because while Germany is pretty strong, the UK and Russia are fairly strong Allies. Japan is also pretty strong and they have a lot of weak Allies to go up against.

[ItIsILeClerc]

I like this outline, knp. Apart from me not wanting the USA to be restricted to go JF, it is Always good to know some effective strategies  8-)…

What happens if the Germans feign Sea Lion but then seriously threaten the Mediterranean/Africa, together with Italy? Or just pressure the Med by building a fleet there. I didn’t think it to be possible, but I found out only recently that Germany is perfectly able to also birdcage Russia and protect itself from massive early US aid (US4 can move forward with 13 fully loaded TRS).

In short, with massive US aid from gamestart, this is what Germany can do (but only if Japan holds back the DOW untill turn 4):
1-Seriously threaten the Med/Africa,
2-Birdcage Russia
3-Hold off a serious (in force) landing of the western allies.
4-(Together with Italy and Japan) get to a ~200IPC income.

This leaves me wondering ofc, how this all would shift if the USA does not help out with a huge invasion threat but goes JF.

[ghr2]

The US needs to be careful not to tunnel vision seazone 6 too early.

[IKE]

@McX:

I don’t seem to have the same problems and haven’t ever felt the need to incorporate bids, OOB is how I have always played, and the Allies have an excellent record against the Axis, and it’s all due to the US.

US strategy is entirely dependent on how the Axis goes about starting the war,but generally speaking I focus more on Europe since I find it’s easier to defend the victory cities in Asia. But if Japan goes after Hawaii early I’ll go straight Pacific to defend Western US and Australia. The silver lining in that is it leaves UK Pacific with the ability to claim money islands and send units as necessary to the Middle East/Africa or possibly up to help Russia in the Caucasus region. If Japan doesn’t attack Hawaii I’ll slowly build a giant navy there anyways, eventually you’ll be able to outspend the Japanese even while fighting in Europe, and go in for the kill, claim that seazone around Japan (6 is it?) and then Japan’s done. You have to be disciplined to keep units in Hawaii longterm and resist the temptation to have adventures around the money islands except for a couple planes and the occasion sub or transport.

My Europe strategy depends on how bad the Axis player wants Gibraltar. If he starts parking German planes there I’ll build UK units in Canada and fighter units to scramble in London, send US navy up to Canada with several transports and then park everyone off Ireland/London in anticipation of hitting Normandy/Holland, assuming you have enough naval units to survive an attack by the German navy/air force. Then I hit Normandy with everything and stay there, funnelling in land units, play D with Russia and eventually tear the Axis in half. If the Axis leaves Gibraltar open, then you can park there with enough force to survive Axis attacks, then of course hit the “soft underbelly” of Italy, or Normandy, Denmark, or wherever he’s weak. Just keep the navy together. It’s probably pretty obvious that you won’t win Europe if the German navy is strong enough to claim the English Channel and environs for the duration of the game.

It’s hard to win with the Axis against a good allied player, reason being it’s hard to effectively allocate resources between the Russian war and naval/air units needed to keep the British/Americans at bay. When I was in the service I overheard a British soldier say “If you have all the gear and no idea you must be an American.” You can’t be that guy - the US greatest advantage is its income (Bonuses). Spend it wisely, and give everyone a job.

Sounds like your group’s Axis play may be slacking, or not up to speed with the latest strategies that YG linked too.

Axis have a very high win percentage in our games.

[ghr2]

@McX:

I don’t seem to have the same problems and haven’t ever felt the need to incorporate bids, OOB is how I have always played, and the Allies have an excellent record against the Axis, and it’s all due to the US.

US strategy is entirely dependent on how the Axis goes about starting the war,but generally speaking I focus more on Europe since I find it’s easier to defend the victory cities in Asia. But if Japan goes after Hawaii early I’ll go straight Pacific to defend Western US and Australia. The silver lining in that is it leaves UK Pacific with the ability to claim money islands and send units as necessary to the Middle East/Africa or possibly up to help Russia in the Caucasus region. If Japan doesn’t attack Hawaii I’ll slowly build a giant navy there anyways, eventually you’ll be able to outspend the Japanese even while fighting in Europe, and go in for the kill, claim that seazone around Japan (6 is it?) and then Japan’s done. You have to be disciplined to keep units in Hawaii longterm and resist the temptation to have adventures around the money islands except for a couple planes and the occasion sub or transport.

My Europe strategy depends on how bad the Axis player wants Gibraltar. If he starts parking German planes there I’ll build UK units in Canada and fighter units to scramble in London, send US navy up to Canada with several transports and then park everyone off Ireland/London in anticipation of hitting Normandy/Holland, assuming you have enough naval units to survive an attack by the German navy/air force. Then I hit Normandy with everything and stay there, funnelling in land units, play D with Russia and eventually tear the Axis in half. If the Axis leaves Gibraltar open, then you can park there with enough force to survive Axis attacks, then of course hit the “soft underbelly” of Italy, or Normandy, Denmark, or wherever he’s weak. Just keep the navy together. It’s probably pretty obvious that you won’t win Europe if the German navy is strong enough to claim the English Channel and environs for the duration of the game.

It’s hard to win with the Axis against a good allied player, reason being it’s hard to effectively allocate resources between the Russian war and naval/air units needed to keep the British/Americans at bay. When I was in the service I overheard a British soldier say “If you have all the gear and no idea you must be an American.” You can’t be that guy - the US greatest advantage is its income (Bonuses). Spend it wisely, and give everyone a job.

Is this 1st edition OOB or 2nd edition?

[McX]

2nd ed. Europe rules

[McX]

Although when i host it it’s with the 1st ed. Pac board. Don’t think it matters much though, except you can take Yukon.

[McX]

Slacking? Maybe. We certainly don’t author pages of moves in notation. But I don’t think so, I play with (and have taught) a few people, intellectual types, chess players almost all of them, who are good at this sort of thing. This game is really not that complicated mechanics/strategy-wise, it’s just big - but I like that, the idea that what you do on one side of the planet affects the other. I know my explanation was probably simplistic to many of you, but I was just reporting the success I’ve had playing as the US and watching. I’m mostly here for rules clarifications :)

[ghr2]

@McX:

Although when i host it it’s with the 1st ed. Pac board. Don’t think it matters much though, except you can take Yukon.

But the entire board 2nd edition for the setup and rules, right?

[ghr2]

Do you play online at all MCX?

[McX]

Right, if I understand your meaning we use 2nd ed. rules and setup, just when I host I have the 2nd ed Europe board with 1st edition Pacific, so the IPC tracker doesn’t go all the way across the top. (I eventually asked for and received AAA sculpts for ANZAC and Japan from WoC). For example, this is what we use for Pacific http://www.axisandallies.org/resources-downloads/setup-chart-for-axis-allies-pacific-1940-second-edition/ with the addition of the 18 Russian infantry and 2 AAA in Siberia. So Japan should be getting all its planes. Any rules I use the rulebook first then come here if I have questions. Never played online. Does that change the dynamics at all? I would assume it takes some luck out of it.

[ghr2]

It uses a random dice generator for rolling, so one can argue that the luck is the same.  Playing online allows you to have a larger pool of people to play with and to play on a map without having to worry about setting it up.  With a larger pool of people to play with, I can say for certain that I learned a lot of new and neat strategies that helped me become a much stronger player.

The game usually records one’s moves in a ‘game history’ so that you can remember what you did and you can easily undo your moves.  Once you finished deciding, you press a button to move onto the next phase.  If you are familiar with the late 90’s A&A cd-rom, its kind of like that. (Specifically, I am speaking of TripleA).

Probably the best part about it is you can save the game for a later time and reload it when you get with your opponent again.  It gets better when you have a group of people you know actually schedule a time to meet online to play against each other which can be more convenient than going over to each other’s houses sometime.

You can also send saved games between one another if you wanted to do a ‘Play by Email’ or ‘Play by Forum’.  This allows you to post important parts of the turn (die rolls, moves, etc) on the forum or an email so you can play anytime that you yourself feels like it is most convenient, albeit it takes longer to finish.  The dice rolls are emailed right when someone else rolls and with the history, it is almost impossible to cheat without someone else noticing.

When you get the time, check out TripleA.  I always like seeing new players who bring original ideas to the table.

[McX]

Cool, thanks. I’ll check it out, I’m eager to get blasted by the Axis.

Cheers

[IKE]

@McX:

Slacking? Maybe. We certainly don’t author pages of moves in notation. But I don’t think so, I play with (and have taught) a few people, intellectual types, chess players almost all of them, who are good at this sort of thing. This game is really not that complicated mechanics/strategy-wise, it’s just big - but I like that, the idea that what you do on one side of the planet affects the other. I know my explanation was probably simplistic to many of you, but I was just reporting the success I’ve had playing as the US and watching. I’m mostly here for rules clarifications :)

Slacking wasn’t the right word, my apologies.  What I meant is that most experienced players dominate with Axis against similar level players with the Allies.

[McX]

Haha no problem. I wouldn’t tolerate slacking!