KJF

[yamamato456]

Can somebody go into detail on a KJF strategy?

[Octopus]

A Kill Japan First strategy does not exist for the following reasons.

1.  The Japanese fleet starts off better than 2 to 1 in terms of power over the US, but the US only starts with only 33% more in income.  This mean if both nations do nothing but spend money on fleets, the US will never over power the Japanese.

2.  The US must move their fleet to the Japanese to threaten the Pacific.  This means the Japanese has two additional turns to build until the US arrives (because it takes 2 turns to reach the Japanese coast or vital islands).  Once again, the Japanese are not only more powerful, but also have 2 turns to see it coming and build defenses.

3.  In order for the US to overcome the Japanese, the US must spend near 100% of their income to combat the Japanese fleet.  The Japanese, on the other hand, can still participate in a strong Asia land campaing and spend small monies on fleet power to deal with the US.  Result: The US is taken out of their Europe campaing, while the Japanese are still effective in their Asia campaing.

4.  Let us say the US does conquer the Japanese fleet and own the Pacific, the US still cannot successfully invade Japan.  One turn of Japanese builds puts 8 infantry on Japan.  This would be most difficult for the US to remove.

The US economically can not effectively catch up to the Japanese fleet due to lack of economy and lack of power.  Combating the Japanese fleet is inefficient since it does not stop the Japanese from doing damage in Asia.  The Japanese can see any attack in the Pacific coming 2 turns away so it is easy to defend.  The Japanese Islands are also near impossible to invade since it is so easy to build an effective defense cheaply.  In conclusion, the effort exerted by the US forces does not yield results to justify such an endevour.

It isfun to think about but do not waste your time with a Kill Japan First strategy.

[trihero]

The Japanese Islands are also near impossible to invade since it is so easy to build an effective defense cheaply.

I highly disagree with this statement. It’s very easy to invade Japanese islands since Japan only has 1 navy to defend 3 islands (borneo/philippines/indies), and the Japanese have to go offensively against your navy in order to stop you from taking them, which gives you a defensive edge. But still the main point stands - KJF is not worth your time.

[Guest]

There is a KJF, it is just slower, and FAR more risky.

1.  Russia stacks in the East (Bury to start) and sends Evenk INF toward Yakut
2.  Novo INF to Sinkiang
3.  Evenk INF to Persia
ARM from Russia to Sinkiang
Against Germany, Russia stacks in West Russia and goes all INF buys.

UK:
India IC. 
AF units to Russia and to India
Aussie fleet transfers units from Australia to India as time permits.

US: 
Sinkiang IC.
AF build in Western and shuttle to Sinkiang via Bury or SFE.

This openning leaves Japan only 1 viable Asian combat in J1:  China.  That is a serious reduction in income growth for starters.

Russia reinforces Sinkiang and sends troops to Persia
UK harrases Germany (Norway, Africa) and whittles away at German fleet
US lands heavy in Africa with initial Atlantic units, then assists in Northern Europe, helping guard Russia’s flanks.
US sends lots of air power to Asia, using ARM builds to kick Japan off teh continent.

Once the land mass of Asia is controlled (or mostly controlled) the US fleet plus Asian based FIGs sink the Jap navy, and then the US and UK clean up the islands, start building in the Atlantic (with increased IPC’s). and take on Germany before they become too strong.

A Japan deprevied of Asia and without a major fleet is not a threat.  You gobble the islands, then do BB supported amphibs plus SBR’s to waste their income and forces until you simply take Japan.

Anyone else want to post variants on the KJF?

[trihero]

I’m not going to discuss whether KJF is worth it or not, as the original poster didn’t specifically ask for that analysis, and because it has been sufficiently discussed by the top two posters. But I’ll post what I’ve seen are effective KJF strategies/tips for the fun of it.

Overall strategy:

1. You will need to build an IC in India as the UK to apply land pressure. Without any land pressure Japan will be free to expand and trounce any American navy that swings by. You will also need the Russians to support it somehow, with either a tank to India on round 1 or keep a tank or 2 in Caucasus to counterattack India if the Japanese decide to take it on their first turn. If you don’t do anything to support India on turn 1, it will fall and be useless immediately.

2. You need to keep a watchful eye on Germany in Africa. I may not be able to tell you definitively how to win, but I can tell you for sure how to lose. Letting Germany keep Africa is a sure road to disaster. You will need to think about how to do this efficiently. You are already in trouble if Germany decided to attack Egypt, since you’re not counterattacking with Indian troops. The UK will have a difficult time maintaining troops in India as well as fielding enough navy/units to go into Africa until around Round 3. It may be worse if the Germans kept their fleets alive. You will probably need to keep the Eastern US navy in the Pacific to pipeline troops to Africa. You may wish to build a Brazilian complex and keep your 2 transports next to it to contest Africa.

3. Russia will be playing a lot of defense. Don’t expect to trade frontline territories for long. With the US very much away and the UK sinking nearly half their income into India every turn, your support is going to be lacking.

4. The US needs to look at how to do long term, irreversible damage to Japan - how to scrub out the Japanese navy and take away income. A Sinkiang complex may or may not be advised, depending on how much Russian support you can expect and how hard the Japanese took China. Generally it’s ok to do, but you need to have more than just 2-4 Russian infantry in Sinkiang if the Japanese have 5+ infantry and 4+ fighters in range. Don’t overtax Russia as it does need its fighters to stave off the Germans. If you can get a complex up safely in Sinkiang, do it, since if the Japanese can’t take it on Round 2, it becomes very difficult for them to take it unless they give up taking the northern route.

The US will be purchasing mainly navy to deal permanent damage to Japan. You will undoubtedly in every case be purchasing 1 carrier to start off with since you have 2+ fighters to land on it, making it an impeccable 16 IPC purchase. I highly recommend starting with a 2nd carrier purchase no matter which overall naval route you’re taking for a few reasons - 1. it’s efficient use of your money, since for 16 IPCs you get 2 units in the water that defend on 3/4 and attack on 1/3. That’s at least as good as buying 2 subs. Buying another fighter to put on the carrier is also a great buy (10 IPCs for a 3/4 unit is quite good considering your other naval options).  Past that, there are a few ways of looking at things:

a. My favorite strategy is to island hop. This gives you the advantage in the waters since you’re not actively going after his navy. He will have to go after yours in order to stop you from getting his islands. Stage in Solomon Islands no later than Round 2 (do it on Round 1 if he ignored Pearl Harbor). From here you can hit Japan, Borneo, Philippines, and Indies. He cannot defend all 4. Methodically tear apart his islands, which contains a lot of his IPCs.

b. Plan B is to make a lot of subs after your first 2 carriers purchase. The reasoning behind this is that subs are the most efficient anti-naval unit, dollar for dollar, once you’ve already matched up initially existing fighters to carriers. Keep massing subs until you have an advantage, and make sure to spend all your money on super subs tech the round before you attack!

c. Plan C is to put a complex in Alaska, and start churning out mass battleships. I know it sounds silly, but it’s very dangerous for the Japanese. The US will put 1-2 battleships off of Alaska every turn, which directly threaten the Japanese seazone (as opposed to placing them in Western US). If Japan lets the US get even a slight advantage, it’s over, as the US can simply strafe the Japanese fleet, heal their battleships, then come back again full force. The battleships will also help bombard the crap out of the mainland once the navy is scrubbed.

You may end up using a mix of the three (i.e. island hop first, then build up mass subs to charge the Japanese navy as you go along)It’s very difficult to decide what to do with the US, in any case. You must maintain Africa, as well as maintain Sinkiang if you went that route, as well as build a threatening navy. You don’t have money for all 3.

Specific tips and tricks:

-stack Buryatia with 6 infantry on Round 1. Buryatia is an important landing site for Allied planes that are attacking SZ60. You will not be able to hold Buryatia for long, but you need to make a strong stand in the north. The US can hit SZ60 with surprisingly a bomber from the eastern US and a fighter from Hawaii on Round 1 if Buryatia is under Allied control, which is devastating if the Japanese did not realize this and simply made their naked transports in that seazone.

-put your UK bomber in Sinkiang on Round 1. It can bomb any complexes if the Japanese decide to put them up, and hit any naked transports off of Japan. You will send your fighters off to the East as well eventually, but you may need them to defend your capital depending on the German navy.

-attack the Kwangtung transport with your full Indian navy minus the fighter. This creates a distraction in the waters.

-attack the Solomon islands sub with the UK sub + fighter from the Indian fleet. The fighter will then land on Pearl Harbor. You have a 2/3 chance of nailing the sub before it submerges. This move makes Pearl Harbor quite tough for Japan to attack safely. What to do with your Australian transport is up to you. You may very well need it to support Africa, so in that case start running it either east or west (west may not sound safe but the japanese may not be able to spare the force to destroy it with so many other things going on).

-counterattack Pearl Harbor if there’s a battleship + 2 fighters + 1 carrier or less. The US can send 2 fighters, 1 bomber, 1 transport, and 1 battleship against Pearl Harbor on Round 1.

-keep any surviving UK fleet together after the first moves with the US fleet amassing in the Pacific. This makes it very difficult for the Japanese to attack directly.

-each US carrier can bring up to 4 fighters into battle. For instance, if you have 2 carriers to the right of SZ60, the 4 fighters already on those carriers can attack SZ60 and land in an island closeby, while 4 fighters from Western US can hit SZ60 and be declared to land on the carriers. This means if you’re looking for a purchase that you can use right away next turn to attack, you can buy 4 fighters if you have the carriers in position.

[88 Millimeter]

I would add this, although it seriously detracts from the Indian IC- Indian Ocean Carrier, Transport, 2 Infantry from India and the Carrier based Fighter to Borneo. Indian Ocean Destroyer to Japanese Transport off Kwangtung. Australian Transport and 2 Infantry from Australia to New Guinea. Australian Sub vs. Japanese Sub. If Japan takes India, Russia poised to take it back and Britain can still build 3 units before J2. Doubtful Japan can have a counter prepared without devoting all resources to India.

This move can slow Japan down alot, even without the ICs. Personally I conserve my British fleet, but it has merit.

[yamamato456]

What if you play with national advantages could you have a KJF then?  Even if not KJF what national advantages and strategies would be picked to hold off/slow down japan?

[trihero]

The NAs make KJF even more improbable, because of Germany’s U-boat interdiction. If the Allies are mainly going after Japan, which at first may seem great because of the Colonial Garrison in India and Enigma Decoded to save the plane/fighter in Egypt, the problem becomes if Germany has the chance to crank out subs. This will not happen early when Germany is still pushing Africa/Russia back to his borders, but the instant he is free to do so you can kiss your game goodbye as the German player puts down 5 subs per turn and detracts from both UK/US income by 5 per turn. It’s too late to stop it unless you are keeping a strong eye on Germany, which isn’t KJF.

[yamamato456]

I think that if Russia chooses Non aggre. NA, US chooses chinese inf. NA, and GB chooses colonial garrison but than mostly uses KGF they could hold off japan and still kill germany quickly.  If the U.S. and britain concentrate almost all on Germany, no matter what advantage, Germany should not have much of a navy past turn 5.

[Alyosha00]

I have a question about KJF.
Can you use any russian forces to make a counter attack through the Sinkiang/China route ( co-ordinated with American help from a Sinkiang Ic)?
or is it too much for Russia to spare?

[trihero]

Why do you keep looking at a turn 1 attack, Shadow? Look at turn 3 - the attack force consists of 11 infantry, 1 artillery, 2 tanks, 3 bombers, 6 fighters, and 2 bombardment shots.

[tcnance]

i lost japan once when my opponent had colonel garrison, chinese div, and non aggresion as his na

[critmonster]

if you can engage the japanese capital ships in battles that force japan to lose some, even if the usa loses more then you can push japan out of the water, they simply cannot replace the BB’s they start with and still push into asia as fast as they need to for the axis to have a chance.  then the usa player continues mounting pressure in the pacific or ferries over to sfe from alaska.  i think if you can clear the japanese navy then they will lose their asian push because usa can then funnel troops over to east asia and disrupt their supply lines, even possibly grabbing some tasty coastal territories.  it is just SO difficult against a savy japanese player.