Nation- (and City-) Specific Victory City Markers

[ossel]

CWO Marc,
I definitely like this idea, and the benefit of it is that there are only a few nations in the game with multiple victory cities. So here’s the nations that need markers and possible generic/specific landmarks/icons/buildings:

United States - ??
Soviet Union - Sickle and Hammer Statue??
Germany - Nazi Eagle statue?
United Kingdom - ??
Japan - Torii?
ANZAC - ??

Or, I can just proceed as planned with landmarks, recognizing that people won’t necessarily know what they’re looking at at first.

OR, I can do molded roundels (see attached).

[CWO Marc]

What I was envisioning with my proposal from earlier today was to continue using easily-identifiable landmarks for the cities which have iconic structures (Paris, Berlin, etc.), supplemented by “nationally identifiable” structures for the remaining cities that have no obvious high-recognition buildings.  Every VC would have a unique marker (which is a big part of the appeal of your project.  So we’d end up with something roughly like this:

VCs with city-specific iconic structures or high-recognition topography:

Berlin : Brandenburg Gate

Cairo : Giza Necropolis

Honolulu : Pearl Harbor (Ford Island and Battleship Row)

Leningrad : Winter Palace

London : Big Ben/Parliament

Moscow : Kremlin and St. Basil’s Cathedral

Ottawa : Parliament Centre Block with Peace Tower

Paris : Eiffel Tower

Rome : Colosseum

San Francisco : Golden Gate Bridge (set in S.F Bay)

Sydney :  Sydney Harbour Bridge

Tokyo : Torii (from Meiji Shrine)

Washington : Capitol Building and Washington Monument

VCs with buildings in nationally-recognizable styles:

Stalingrad (?) [needs to contrast with Moscow and Leningrad]

Calcutta (Hindu temple?) [Dakshineswar Kali Temple might work.]

Hong Kong (Pagoda-style building? Must contrast with Shanghai.)  [Main Altar of the Wong Tai Sin Temple might work.]

Shanghai (Pagoda-style building? Must contrast with Hong Kong.) [Yu Garden’s Dianchun Hall might work.]

Manila (?)

Warsaw (Eastern-style church?) [Church of the Assumption of the Virgin Mary and of St. Joseph might work.]

[CWO Marc]

On the matter of distinguishing the two Chinese cities, Hong Kong and Shanghai, here’s an idea.  Both currently have pagoda-style buildings suggested as their representative structures.  This isn’t necessarily a problem, but if greater variety is desired one of these pagodas could be replaced by a Chinese guardian lion sculpture.  These things are found all over China, so they would fit the concept of nationally-identifiable structures.  I’ve posted two sample pictures below, one of which is in fact from Shanghai.  It should be possible to find additional designs from Shanghai or Hong Kong without too much trouble, if the idea is worth pursuing.  One technical question is whether Ossel’s program could handle this kind of organic (although very sylized) shape.  Chinese guardian lions apparently come in either male or female vesions which are posed slightly differently.

[John Brown]

@CWO:

On the matter of distinguishing the two Chinese cities, Hong Kong and Shanghai, here’s an idea.  Both currently have pagoda-style buildings suggested as their representative structures.  This isn’t necessarily a problem, but if greater variety is desired one of these pagodas could be replaced by a Chinese guardian lion sculpture.  These things are found all over China, so they would fit the concept of nationally-identifiable structures.  I’ve posted two sample pictures below, one of which is in fact from Shanghai.  It should be possible to find additional designs from Shanghai or Hong Kong without too much trouble, if the idea is worth pursuing.  One technical question is whether Ossel’s program could handle this kind of organic (although very sylized) shape.  Chinese guardian lions apparently come in either male or female vesions which are posed slightly differently.

As long as the program gets the basic shape of the pagodas, it should be fine. The program may not can get all the ornate jewelry around the neck and tedious items, but if it can get the basic outline of the figure, that’s all that would matter, right?

It doesn’t have to be perfect just recognizable. Like you both said, the simpler the better, right?

I think you are both on the right track, but some details may have to be left out. I guess it all depends on how powerful the program is, but I agree with you both, that as long as it is recognizable,  that is all that should matter.

[CWO Marc]

I’ve been doing some more research on Stalingrad and I came across a blog page featuring several shots taken in 2012 during the filming of the movie “Stalingrad”.  Many of these pictures show the Barmaley Fountain, which I had suggested for use as the Stalingrad marker.  Ossel had noted that using this statue would be a problem for a couple of reasons: 1) the comparative scale of a small fountain sculpture relative to the much larger buildings used in other markers, and 2) the inability of his program to handle organic shapes.

It now turns out, however, that the statue was located in an area called Station Plaza, next to a large building (presumably the predecessor of the postwar railway station located in the area).  I haven’t been able to find good contemporary shots of the original station, but I’ve posted below several shots of the replica that was built for the movie.  So a new approach for the Stalingrad marker would be to depict the building (in its intact pre-war state) with a square in front of it, and to put in the middle of the square a little circular element depicting the fountain statue.  The main focus of the marker would be the building, which is suitably large, and because the fountain statue would now be tiny in size (and thus would have almost no details) there would no longer be a problem over the limitations of Ossel’s program.

[ossel]

This would probably work for Stalingrad, good find!

I’m reworking Honolulu now, and then I think I’m going to give Stalingrad a swing.

I’ll look at the Chinese lion concept, but they’re awfully…curvy…lol

[CWO Marc]

@ossel:

This would probably work for Stalingrad, good find! I’m reworking Honolulu now, and then I think I’m going to give Stalingrad a  swing. I’ll look at the Chinese lion concept, but they’re awfully…curvy…lol

Yes, and another problem with the lions – as was the case with the original version of the Stalingrad fountain statue proposal – is that their scale would be too small.  Having the two Chinese cities both represented by pagodas isn’t really a problem; after all, San Francisco and Sydney are both slated to be represented by bridges, and that’s not a problem either becase the two bridges are very different (as are the two pagodas that have been suggested).

[CWO Marc]

@ossel:

I’m reworking Honolulu now, and then I think I’m going to give Stalingrad a swing.

Hmm…I’ve just imagined the following conversation taking place on December 7, 1941, between Hiroshi Oshima, the Japanese ambassador to Germany, and Adolf Hitler, at the moment when Pearl Harbor was being bombed:

Oshima: “We are reworking Honolulu right now.”

Hitler: “Good – then next year, I think I’m going to give Stalingrad a swing.”

[ossel]

Hahaha, nice one.

Alright, what do we think?

[CWO Marc]

@ossel:

Alright, what do we think?

We think it turned out beautifully!  First-class work.

[John Brown]

Man you guys are incredible. Ossel, your art work is amazing. Marc your a remarkable researcher and fast. You guys, both, have amazing talent. Kudos to the both of you. :-D

[CWO Marc]

@John:

Man you guys are incredible. Ossel, your art work is amazing. Marc your a remarkable researcher and fast. You guys, both, have amazing talent. Kudos to the both of you. :-D

Much appreciated, and many thanks to you and everyone else for the feedback you’ve been contributing on the various proposals, which is very valuable.  Ossel is the one who has the toughest job – I’m amazed at how he can turn flat pictures into such good-looking 3D models, especially when you consider how small the markers are intended to be once they’re manufactured.

Anyway, we’re not out of the woods yet: Stalingrad may have fallen, but our remaining tough-nut-to-crack, Manila, is still resisting valiantly!

[CWO Marc]

I may have found a good solution to our Manila problem: Fort Drum, the “concrete battleship” (actually a heavily fortified island fortress) located at the mouth of Manila Bay.  There are photos of a detailed Fort Drum model (shown from several angles) at this site: http://www.finewaterline.com/pages/gallery/everything else/pffortdrum/pffortdrum.htm .  The marker could be designed similarly to the Pearl Harbor one, with the fort surrounded by water and with a partial shoreline of Manila Bay framing part of the marker’s rim.

[ossel]

I like the Fort Drum suggestion!

So…I figured I’d crank out Cairo real quick since it is undoubtedly the simplest, but once I got done with the pyramids, my obsession with detail got the better of me, and I’ve admittedly spent all day struggling with modeling the Sphinx… :oops:

Unfortunately, it ended up defeating me, so here is the very simple, yet effective, Cairo.

[CWO Marc]

@ossel:

Unfortunately, it ended up defeating me, so here is the very simple, yet effective, Cairo.

“Simple but effective” worked nicely for the Russians when they designed the T-34, and I think it works equally well here.  The model looks especially great in the side view – perhaps because that’s the angle from which the Pyramids are usually seen in most photographs.  Anyway, don’t feel bad about the Sphinx – the original probably took years to sculpt!

I’ll be away from the office on Friday, so my feedback over the next three days is going to be infrequent and erratic, but I’ll try to visit the forum at least once per day because this project is really picking up momentum and I’m very eager to see the forthcoming developments!

[John Brown]

@CWO:

I may have found a good solution to our Manila problem: Fort Drum, the “concrete battleship” (actually a heavily fortified island fortress) located at the mouth of Manila Bay.  There are photos of a detailed Fort Drum model (shown from several angles) at this site: http://www.finewaterline.com/pages/gallery/everything else/pffortdrum/pffortdrum.htm .  The marker could be designed similarly to the Pearl Harbor one, with the fort surrounded by water and with a partial shoreline of Manila Bay framing part of the marker’s rim.

I should have opened my mouth on this one, but I figured since fort drum was a HBG game piece, we didn’t need it, but this is a good alternative as any for those that haven’t bought that piece. :-)

[John Brown]

@ossel:

I like the Fort Drum suggestion!

So…I figured I’d crank out Cairo real quick since it is undoubtedly the simplest, but once I got done with the pyramids, my obsession with detail got the better of me, and I’ve admittedly spent all day struggling with modeling the Sphinx… :oops:

Unfortunately, it ended up defeating me, so here is the very simple, yet effective, Cairo.

That is good enough. If someone can’t tell that that is Cairo, then they are in trouble anyway, LOL. :-D

[CWO Marc]

@John:

fort drum was a HBG game piece

Ah.  I wasn’t aware of that.  I came across a reference to the fort while reading a document on the US recapture of Manila.  Which HBG battle pieces set is it part of?  It must be one of the ones at the planning stage because I own all the ones that have already been produced and shipped.

[John Brown]

@CWO:

@John:

fort drum was a HBG game piece

Ah.  I wasn’t aware of that.  I came across a reference to the fort while reading a document on the US recapture of Manila.  Which HBG battle pieces set is it part of?  It must be one of the ones at the planning stage because I own all the ones that have already been produced and shipped.

It is under the fortification section of the products for sale. It has been there for it least 2 or 3 months, but if you don’t check that section, you will miss a lot of cool stuff. I have that and bought panther turrets as well, sub pens and bunkers. Check them out. :-D

[John Brown]

Sorry Marc, I told you wrong. It is under facilities. Sorry, my bad! :oops: