Well, if USA is KJF then you have at least Europe for yourself and your buddy Italy and have a serious chance to get rid of either Moscow or London, whichever you desire. Once you have done that, the USA cannot continue to focus on Japan only because you are then well on your way towards winning on the European map so they better have Japan Isolated by that time. If you can manage to have Japan survive till then you might have a shot. At least you can make it a very long game before you go down ;-).
You are actually stating the arguments for KJF, without realizing it :-)
With KJF, Germany WILL get Moscow, yes. (If they take London, Russia will hold for a really long time, if UK built at least some defense in UK1). But they’ve not won with only Moscow or London. They need to get both or one+Egypt.
Yes, USA cannot continue to focus on Japan after US5 or so. And they don’t need to. If you spent the first 5 turns with US 100% in Pacific, you will have Japan contained. UK-Pac and China will trade IPC with Japan, while Anzac’s fleet is getting bigger and bigger. These 3 nations will be able to fight Japan on their own after US spent 300 IPC in the PAC.
After that, USA can spend every single penny for Germany for the rest of the game.
You said “If you can manage to have Japan survive till then you might have a shot.” Actually that’s not exactly true. Japan is very rarely truly conquered. Their Income is reduced to <20, and most often than not they won’t even be able to send the planes from Tokyo anywhere. Mere survival is just not sufficient for Japan.
@Uncrustable:
Germany goal #1 kill UK navy ASAP, and take France of course
goal#2 decide one of 3 basic strategies.
a) Sealion,
b) Barbarossa,
c) dow strict nuetrals while hitting the Med and Africa/Middle East
Wait-attacking strict neutrals as Germany is a viable strategy?! I’m very interested in this; can you elaborate?
I’ve never seen it happen, but I guess it could be some kind of very high risk, high reward strategy. Taking Spain/Portugal will give you additional scrambling options.
Taking turkey will lead to Germany focusing on Med, africa and middle east while trying to contain Russia.
I don’t think it is possible though, since Germany simply has not enough troops for that. And the allies will get free IPC too with South America, Arabia and so on.
I suppose it is the surprise value more than anything else.
I can see how it could help a fleet less Germany help out its ally, Italy, as he can march overland to Gib. Depends how desperate you are to keep the US out of the Med.
Turkey would be my strongest reason not to do it, but the Allies still have to enter it. If they are far away or without a fleet, it could be worth the gamble.
It does allow the US to collect income in South America, of course, but if he is there, he is not fighting the Axis.
I think it would be done more if, as someone suggested, an attack only activated the Neutrals in the same continent and not world wide.
You are actually stating the arguments for KJF, without realizing it :-)
Hehheh, hi again Mr.Roboto ^^.
Yes I did have in mind your praise/hymn for the KJF when I wrote that, so actually I did realize it right then and there ;-).
You said “If you can manage to have Japan survive till then you might have a shot.” Actually that’s not exactly true. Japan is very rarely truly conquered. Their Income is reduced to <20, and most often than not they won’t even be able to send the planes from Tokyo anywhere. Mere survival is just not sufficient for Japan.
True, I need to explain this better:
What I meant with ‘survival’ ofc, is if Japan can achieve rough parity at sea with all its enemies there.
That would mean it can keep its income ‘high’ (in this scenario I fear Japan cannot get much higher than 65), requires a very large fleet so the USA doesnt dare to attack it and as a consequence, Japan will be much weaker on Mainland Asia so it can forget about taking/holding Calcutta. But Containing the beast is hopefully still an option.
Since I have no real experience with KJF its all a big IF to me. But I will analyse Japan’s options with this when I have time and when I feel Japan should be able to do just this I might challenge you for a game of KJF mayhem.
Keep in mind though, I have little to no hope for Axis victories anyway but that is my personal experience and may well be even my own shortcoming in Axis Strategies (or strength in allied ones or a bit of both ;-))!
I’ve never seen it happen, but I guess it could be some kind of very high risk, high reward strategy. Taking Spain/Portugal will give you additional scrambling options.
Taking turkey will lead to Germany focusing on Med, africa and middle east while trying to contain Russia.I don’t think it is possible though, since Germany simply has not enough troops for that. And the allies will get free IPC too with South America, Arabia and so on.
I have done this before. Build a major industrial complex in Romania, attack Turkey turn 3 and drive for all the middle east and into India.
Caught my opponent completly by surprise and Germany (with Italian help) took out all of Africa and the Middle east then drove hard for Russia. Axis was making a small fortune that was tough to overcome.
In a long game, it probably won’t do as well.
Kim
That’s just it, I did not fall for a 2 front war.
I wanted to crush France in 1 rd of die rolling, which I did accomplish, I only suffered 4 casualties.
I bought the BB rd 1 so Ge would have 2 just like UK.
My main goal was RU. I only bought GE navy to scare UK Fleet away which worked to perfection.
The problem was US rushed Japan on rd 5 took Korea trashed IJN Fleet and its own but unloaded like 8 tranny in Korea. IJN could do nothing to Kick them off mainland therefore provided US with landing zone for US bombers. Nxt turn US leveled IJN IC
Germany was knocking on Moscows door in force. and Italy with German AF support had IC in Egypt, Uk was hurting,
Yes they had their Atlantic fleet but they were cowering in Quebec. Everytime he tried to come back home, my navy backed by my large Luftwaffe forced him back. The allied powers laughed, when I bought naval yard in Poland. They stopped laughing when I kept popping out into the channel, pushing UK navy back to Canada
Just seems like buying so much navy as germany slows you down.
I’ve never seen it happen, but I guess it could be some kind of very high risk, high reward strategy. Taking Spain/Portugal will give you additional scrambling options.
Taking turkey will lead to Germany focusing on Med, africa and middle east while trying to contain Russia.I don’t think it is possible though, since Germany simply has not enough troops for that. And the allies will get free IPC too with South America, Arabia and so on.
I have done this before. Build a major industrial complex in Romania, attack Turkey turn 3 and drive for all the middle east and into India.
Caught my opponent completly by surprise and Germany (with Italian help) took out all of Africa and the Middle east then drove hard for Russia. Axis was making a small fortune that was tough to overcome.
In a long game, it probably won’t do as well.
Kim
We tried it in 3 different games a while back when the idea of the “G3 Neutral Crush” was first tossed around. Mainly it’s Germany building up and taking Spain, Sweeden and Turkey all on round 3.
In one game it was a brilliant success because it gave Germany extra cash and great strategic positions. They were able to hold off the US from Spain and with Turkey they grabbed up the Middle East, threatened India and created an extra front in Russia. I think surprise on the Allies part had a lot to do with it.
The next time it was a miserable disaster. The Neutrals got really good dice and it took way too many German resources to take them. Spain was easily taken by USA, plus they got an extra couple of infantry in Portugal to boot. Turkey actually fell to the Italians instead of the Germans which messed up the Axis plans. Russia came in and pounded the Italians and ended up with a back door into the Balkans. Sweeden was the only one that went halfway decent for Germany but it is strategically insignificant.
The other time we tried that, it didn’t seem to make much difference one way or the other.
Since then, both sides pretty much leave strict neutrals alone. We even use Neutral Blocks so they only affect neutral states within a certain area (if Spain gets attacked, Mongolia or South America doesn’t care). Still, the units used to attack any Neutrals seem better used to attack Russians or British.
Allied players have NEVER attacked strict neutrals in our games. I guess we just all have it stuck in our head that the Allies are the “good guys” and would not threaten the sovereignty of a neutral nation.
@Deaths:
That’s just it, I did not fall for a 2 front war.
I wanted to crush France in 1 rd of die rolling, which I did accomplish, I only suffered 4 casualties.
I bought the BB rd 1 so Ge would have 2 just like UK.……
The problem was US rushed Japan on rd 5 took Korea trashed IJN Fleet and its own but unloaded like 8 tranny in Korea. IJN could do nothing to Kick them off mainland therefore provided US with landing zone for US bombers. Nxt turn US leveled IJN IC
Your first problem: The best way for Germany to have as many battleships as the UK is to blow up all of the UK’s battleships.
Secondly, no offense to whoever played Japan, but if Japan was routed by round 5 they made some very serious mistakes. The US can’t even buy enough boats to match the IJN and get them to Japan in that time unless your Japan player did not have a very solid strategy.
Japan has enough resources to make itself a monster. Even if the US attempts to dump all of their resources into the Pacific, Japan can easily go into a defensive and hold them off.
In my opinion Japan is the hardest country for any new player to play in Global because the entire balance of the war hinges on being able to both demand America’s full attention and then defend against it as well. One mistake with the IJN can easily mean losing the entire game.
@Deaths:
That’s just it, I did not fall for a 2 front war.
I wanted to crush France in 1 rd of die rolling, which I did accomplish, I only suffered 4 casualties.
I bought the BB rd 1 so Ge would have 2 just like UK.……
The problem was US rushed Japan on rd 5 took Korea trashed IJN Fleet and its own but unloaded like 8 tranny in Korea. IJN could do nothing to Kick them off mainland therefore provided US with landing zone for US bombers. Nxt turn US leveled IJN IC
Your first problem: The best way for Germany to have as many battleships as the UK is to blow up all of the UK’s battleships.
Secondly, no offense to whoever played Japan, but if Japan was routed by round 5 they made some very serious mistakes. The US can’t even buy enough boats to match the IJN and get them to Japan in that time unless your Japan player did not have a very solid strategy.
Japan has enough resources to make itself a monster. Even if the US attempts to dump all of their resources into the Pacific, Japan can easily go into a defensive and hold them off.
In my opinion Japan is the hardest country for any new player to play in Global because the entire balance of the war hinges on being able to both demand America’s full attention and then defend against it as well. One mistake with the IJN can easily mean losing the entire game.
Well said!
@Deaths:
That’s just it, I did not fall for a 2 front war.
I wanted to crush France in 1 rd of die rolling, which I did accomplish, I only suffered 4 casualties.
I bought the BB rd 1 so Ge would have 2 just like UK.……
The problem was US rushed Japan on rd 5 took Korea trashed IJN Fleet and its own but unloaded like 8 tranny in Korea. IJN could do nothing to Kick them off mainland therefore provided US with landing zone for US bombers. Nxt turn US leveled IJN IC
Your first problem: The best way for Germany to have as many battleships as the UK is to blow up all of the UK’s battleships.
Secondly, no offense to whoever played Japan, but if Japan was routed by round 5 they made some very serious mistakes. The US can’t even buy enough boats to match the IJN and get them to Japan in that time unless your Japan player did not have a very solid strategy.
Japan has enough resources to make itself a monster. Even if the US attempts to dump all of their resources into the Pacific, Japan can easily go into a defensive and hold them off.
In my opinion Japan is the hardest country for any new player to play in Global because the entire balance of the war hinges on being able to both demand America’s full attention and then defend against it as well. One mistake with the IJN can easily mean losing the entire game.
Well said!
I 2nd that!
I learned this the painful way, many losses.
very sad.
I got my butt kicked as Japan the first few times I played, and it was horrible. If you take two new players of equal but very low skill just learning the game, the person playing America has a very decisive advantage over the person playing Japan. America has a lot of built in safety nets. You are the aggressor, you have a ton of money to throw at the problem, and you have very focused objectives such as “build a big ass army/navy and go stomp on something”. When you are just learning to play the game, that kind of macro-thinking can easily win and we as a group thought things like “how can you possibly beat America”
Learning to play Japan means learning tactics like moving Japan’s production out of Japan, always building the IJN (even if it’s just a submarine), investing in facilities early, keeping your fleet in counterattack range of vital targets at all times, maintaining the DEI, cutting off India/China without having to waste resources conquering them, how to utilize Japan’s massive air force effectively, and so on and so on.
Now when we play America and you realize all of the faults of America, it can feel hopeless going up against a Japan that’s making 70+ IPC, no Chinese left, and India making like 7 IPC a turn with a bombed out factory and no navy. Then it’s just you and tiny little Anzac against an opponent that can build defenses to anything you build two turns before you can even get it there and you have Britain and Russia begging you spend money you don’t have on the other side of the world.
I think it’s just the natural curve of the game.
When I first started playing… it was “HOW THE ���� DO YOU BEAT JAPAN?”
It got to the point where I was like… “WHY WAIT TO WIN WITH JAPAN, WHY NOT GO TO WAR ROUND 1?”
and so it happened.
Crushing hopes and dreams with J1 DOW for a long time now. People developed several responses to it. I know when I play a game as the axis, the allies throw bid mostly in the pacific.
~
This is because I think very aggressively. Like how do I get the most stuff in position to take India quickly. etc. Plus if things go bad for me in Europe it is generally the Pacific that gives me a chance at winning.
To be honest… all the action is in the pacific when it comes to global… more combat is done. In europe it is just one big battle at Russia usually… some Italy snafus and maybe a small d day… but that is it.
My Europe has much improved over time.
I bumped my strategy guides for you. Take a look at them. Try those opening moves out and you will see how quickly the axis can catch up and overtake the allies in income.
In fact the allies start at a huge disadvantage. The allies look like they have all this stuff… but if you take away all the buildings, you will realize that unit wise… the game is even… except the axis have a huge position advantage and the axis start off destroying pretty much everything in sight.
Axis win most global games.
Honestly, the Pacific is fine. It is europe that is boring and that is because Russia does not make enough money and it does not have an incentive to attack anything. In fact Russia has more of an incentive to help out in the Pacific or to take original axis territories in africa/middle east… than it does fighting in Europe. It is pretty stupid if you ask me.
Japan can make the pacific boring if it wants to… which sucks the fun out of global and it is usually an inferior strategy unless Germany makes something big happen.
