HBG units "Custom" Rules question (Global game)

[baron Münchhausen]

Here is a revised summary.

Inside Global 1940 system cost:

Mech Infantry OOB   A1D2M2C4, get +1A when paired with Art, can blitz with tank.
Armored Infantry A2D1M2C4, get +1A when paired with Art (even tank?), can blitz with tank.

Light Artillery       A2D2M1C4, each give +1A to 1 Inf.      OOB Artillery

Medium Artillery  A3D3M1C5, each give +1A to 1 Inf.
Mobile   Artillery  A2D3M2C5, each give +1A to 1 Inf.

Heavy Artillery     A3D4M1C6, each give +1A to 1 Inf.

Light Tank           A3D2M2C5, can blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.

Medium Tank (T-34) A3D3M2C6, can blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.  OOB Armor

Fast  Heavy tank (Panther) A4D3M2C7, can blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.
Slow Heavy tank (Tiger)    A4D4M1C7, no blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.

Heavy Tank Destroyer A4D4M1C8, no blitz, destroy a tank on each “1” rolled.

What do you think of this scale increments in stats?

[toblerone77]

Consider the fact that there are also light tanks like the; Stuart, Panzer 35t, Panzer II, T-26, the 7TP. There are also; Panzer III, Chi-Ha, and various “to be determined” medium tanks to contend with when figuring out formulas for stats. Coach has indicated that there will be a Panzer IV in a potential German set. The current incarnations of Italian and Japanese tanks are in fact light tanks. There are also heavy tanks in the works.

I don’t like D12 rule sets and am working on my own D6 variant as pieces come out. The problem when posting on the board is just the honest fact that many people just don’t like the new units. Many don’t own any of the units. Lastly, You’ll have to bend the OOB structure of the game and it just doesn’t jive OOB rules, tourney play, or tripleA games. THAT"S TOTALLY FINE. I’m not trying to convert anyone or discredit their opinion. There are a few of us “piece junkies” and quite frankly “outlaw” players/groups that want more/different game experiences.

To play D6 or use the HBG units for more than just “eye candy” you have to up the ante on range, hit points, dice rolls or cost. An example of this was the much hated Heavy Bomber of the Classic edition. It was hated because it gave a huge advantage to the player that owned the technology. In my experience it didn’t mean you won the game, that just my opinion. My point is that IF EVERYONE had had Heavy Bombers then who had the advantage?

If you power up, extend range, adjust cost, or add hit points to units that EVERYONE has or can purchase it doesn’t break the game. If everyone is paying the same price for the same unit it doesn’t break the game either.

So if we want Heavy Armor we have to have a unit to represent it. The JS2 would do nicely for the Allies. Then we have to give it some advantage. Double the fire power, hit points, and cost making it 12 IPCs. Wait! but why not just buy two tanks? Reduce the cost by 1-3 IPCs. It will have the advantage of being easier to transport etc…

I’m not using that as a hard and fast formula I’m simply using it as an example. Nobody has a “cornered” market because ANYONE could buy that tank and ANYONE could use or abuse it’s advantages. I’m sure many won’t like an idea like this for any number of reasons but I’d challenge someone to try it and see what happens.

More action, more battles, less waiting around watching everyone else play and less complicated.

Edit: I suppose my first paragraph could be ignored. LOL

[baron Münchhausen]

Hi Toblerone77,
I was just trying to show on an empirical basis that there is some room to integrate in a balance scaled more units inside the known stats of ground units.
**There is at least 7 ways of modelling stats:

1. Attack factor
2. Defence factor
3. Movement of unit
4. Cost of unit
5. Special bonus when paired to another unit
6. Double hit value (with or without repair capacity)
7. Other special ability**

Of course, the more you subdivide Infantry, Artillery and Tank the more difficult to create a specific unit which worth the purchase and has his own strategical function inside the ground units.

To create  1 unit which defend @4 and cost more than 2 Inf., you can ask why bother buying this D4 unit? It is better to maximize defence with 2 hits and 2D2.

As you said:
@toblerone77:

So if we want Heavy Armor we have to have a unit to represent it. The JS2 would do nicely for the Allies. Then we have to give it some advantage. Double the fire power, hit points, and cost making it 12 IPCs. Wait! but why not just buy two tanks? Reduce the cost by 1-3 IPCs. It will have the advantage of being easier to transport etc…

As a precise example:
1 Inf+ 1Art= A4D4M1C7, 2 units vs
Fast  Heavy Tank (Panther) A4D3M2C7
This is the same cost, only 1 unit but you get a single punch A4 from 2 space-away, blitz, + bonus to TcB.

However, it is less interesting to buy a Tiger from this strategical point of view:
Slow Heavy Tank (Tiger)    A4D4M1C7, no blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.

Then, maybe it is needed to give it 2 hits.

Then it becomes:
Slow Heavy Tank (Tiger)    A4D4M1C7, 2 hits, no blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.

But we should say that this unit cannot be repaired (unlike BB). After a second hit, it disappears from the board.
Then we have 2 very different units for the same cost of 7 IPCs.

[toblerone77]

@Baron:

Here is a revised summary.

Inside Global 1940 system cost:

Mech Infantry OOB   A1D2M2C4, get +1A when paired with Art, can blitz with tank.
Armored Infantry A2D1M2C4, get +1A when paired with Art (even tank?), can blitz with tank.

Light Artillery       A2D2M1C4, each give +1A to 1 Inf.      OOB Artillery

Medium Artillery  A3D3M1C5, each give +1A to 1 Inf.
Mobile   Artillery  A2D3M2C5, each give +1A to 1 Inf.

Heavy Artillery     A3D4M1C6, each give +1A to 1 Inf.

Light Tank           A3D2M2C5, can blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.

Medium Tank (T-34) A3D3M2C6, can blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.  OOB Armor

Fast  Heavy tank (Panther) A4D3M2C7, can blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.
Slow Heavy tank (Tiger)    A4D4M1C7, no blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.

Heavy Tank Destroyer A4D4M1C8, no blitz, destroy a tank on each “1” rolled.

What do you think of this scale increments in stats?

I don’t think your stats are bad.

[baron Münchhausen]

However,
if  I try to input this one (since there is a 1941 sculpt for it.)
Slow Heavy Tank (Tiger)    A4D4M1C7, 2 hits, no blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.

Raise the question:
7 OOB tank A3D3M2, 1 hit are they better than 6 Tiger A4D4M1, 2 hits ?

A21D21M2, 7 hits vs A24D24M1, 12 hits
(or vs 6 Inf+ 6 Art= A24D24M1, 12 hits = 5% for OOB tank vs 95% survival for the Inf+Art).

Is it a real balance match?
Without the 2 hits: it is 49% for OOB vs 45 % for Tiger chance of survival

Maybe the 2 hits for ground units required to destroy a damaged unit before damaging another instead of the regular take 6 damage on 6 Tiger before loosing 1 (as we will do with 3 or 4 BB in the same SZ).

This 2 options are clearly different:
A) after 2 hits, only 5 Tigers fire.
Maybe it is around 15% chance of survival for regular OOB Tanks.

B) after 6 hits,  still 6 Tigers fire.
And it is .2% chance of survival for regular OOB Tanks.

You see, I’m thinking out loud…

[baron Münchhausen]

Which one is a better buy:
7 OOB Tank A21D21M2C42, 7 hits vs 6 Panther tank (A4D3M2C7) A24D18M2C42, 6 hits?
75% for OOB on offence  vs 21%
49% for OOB  on defense vs 45% Panther on offence.

Maybe this one is well-balance?

Of course 6 Panthers attacking A4 vs 6 Inf+ 6 Art= A24D24M1C42, 12 hits.
3.5% odds of survival for Panther vs 96%.

6 Panthers D3 on defense, it is very awfull:
1% odds of survival for Panther vs 99%.

The lesser units are as usual and intended by A&A system more able to survive a direct battle.

Maybe Panthers are still too weak on defense…

[toblerone77]

Baron you have good posts and ideas. However I’m not looking to create rules that are so complicated or intricate. This game gets really slow as it is. I’m willing to give away some historicity and some realism for fun and a session you can actually complete in a day.

Consider the fact that it took 4 Shermans to take out one Tiger. The US could simply churn them out as needed, and the Army basically knew how lethal The Tiger was hence three Sherman would basically play distraction while the fourth would try to get a lucky shot and disable the Tiger.

Even when we’re using “macro” vision mechanics of A&A, a Tiger division still out classes it’s medium tank division opponent greatly.

It’s not that I’m saying you’re wrong I just have a different idea. You seem to be looking to create the simulation A&A experience. I’m trying to go for the “I’m a married guy who doesn’t get to play a lot” beer and pretzels experience.

You and Flashman are probably more like minded than You and I. I don’t mean that to be rude it’s just we all want different things out of the game.

[baron Münchhausen]

@toblerone77:

Baron you have good posts and ideas. However I’m not looking to create rules that are so complicated or intricate. This game gets really slow as it is. I’m willing to give away some historicity and some realism for fun and a session you can actually complete in a day.

It’s not that I’m saying you’re wrong I just have a different idea. You seem to be looking to create the simulation A&A experience. I’m trying to go for the “I’m a married guy who doesn’t get to play a lot” beer and pretzels experience.

You and Flashman are probably more like minded than You and I. I don’t mean that to be rude it’s just we all want different things out of the game.

I don’t see what is adding more complexity on ground units: because it is still the same A/D/M/C/ hits/unit and so forth.

What is adding time, is the time take to select units to invest in.
If you take time to pick every single and different sculpt, and want something more than just “eye candy”, you must come with some real difference between those units.
Isn’t it?

[baron Münchhausen]

@toblerone77:

Baron you have good posts and ideas. However I’m not looking to create rules that are so complicated or intricate. This game gets really slow as it is. **I’m willing to give away some historicity and some realism for fun and a session you can actually complete in a day.

Consider the fact that it took 4 Shermans to take out one Tiger. The US could simply churn them out as needed, and the Army basically knew how lethal The Tiger was hence three Sherman would basically play distraction while the fourth would try to get a lucky shot and disable the Tiger.**

Even when we’re using “macro” vision mechanics of A&A, a Tiger division still out classes it’s medium tank division opponent greatly.

It’s not that I’m saying you’re wrong I just have a different idea. You seem to be looking to create the simulation A&A experience. I’m trying to go for the “I’m a married guy who doesn’t get to play a lot” beer and pretzels experience.

It is also part of the game to bring to the battle, and on the battle board, those terrifying Tiger, so the enemy have some sense of fear of the presence of these Heavy Armor.  :-D

[toblerone77]

@Baron:

@toblerone77:

Baron you have good posts and ideas. However I’m not looking to create rules that are so complicated or intricate. This game gets really slow as it is. I’m willing to give away some historicity and some realism for fun and a session you can actually complete in a day.

It’s not that I’m saying you’re wrong I just have a different idea. You seem to be looking to create the simulation A&A experience. I’m trying to go for the “I’m a married guy who doesn’t get to play a lot” beer and pretzels experience.

You and Flashman are probably more like minded than You and I. I don’t mean that to be rude it’s just we all want different things out of the game.

I don’t see what is adding more complexity on ground units: because it is still the same A/D/M/C/ hits/unit and so forth.

What is adding time, is the time take to select units to invest in.
If you take time to pick every single and different sculpt, and want something more than just “eye candy”, you must come with some real difference between those units.
Isn’t it?

As for the Panther and Tiger I’d probably just give them the same set of stats for the sake of simplicity. No they aren’t the same tank but close enough on a macro scale. There are several light tanks I don’t really want to make stats for every light tank. Germany has two from HBG right now. The 35t and the Panzer II. I wouldn’t bother giving them different stats. I’m also not criticizing your work either. I just wouldn’t bother putting a repair feature on a heavy tank. I’d consider repairs “built-in” to the piece as we see re-supply is not modeled into the game. A damaged heavy tank would simply be a division reduced in strength rather than an actual damaged unit. Before someone mentions it I’d 86 the BB/CV repair rule.

Just out of curiosity do have the HBG units? Call it an intangible factor but when you have all the actual pieces in front of you set up on a board it does make a difference on how you view the game. The same intangible factor that occurs when your running a solo scenario and you hear that sound of the dice shaking versus a dice roller on a computer screen. You’ll think about it differently.

As for “eye candy”, it is really cool to set up the board with various mixtures of units. Your first turn you may place Panzer II’s on the board and as the game closes you might start placing Tigers and Me-262’s.

Honestly I’m curious as to where you come up with your ideas. Everybody plays different. Everybody started playing at different times and with different editions. I only mention this because many of the ideas you express have a more “hex and tile” gaming scenario. A more traditional war game flavor.

[baron Münchhausen]

Just out of curiosity do have the HBG units?

Not actually, but I got the 1942 1st and 2e edition, 1940 Global,  1941 and the classic 1942(?) from Milton Bradley.
There is already different sculpt in it. Specially the Tiger in the 1941 edition.

Honestly I’m curious as to where you come up with your ideas. Everybody plays different. Everybody started playing at different times and with different editions.

I played first on Milton Bradley.
Then I add the David Schwartzer World War II extension to Axis and Allies which introduced: destroyer escort, destroyer, cruiser, Hellcats and zero, 2 hits carrier and battleships.
So when I bought Spring 1942, I was already prepared to the new units.

Most of my ideas in fact are picked inside the actual set of rules and mixing them in different ways.

Sometimes I bent them a bit, but when I do it, I don’t like it very much because it goes against simplicity and familiarity with some OOB rules.

So it drives me more to think deeper and find something inside the various rules already in use.

Sometimes I fall upon old posts of mine and even for me, I see how hard it is to read (the long ones) and  understand  them because it requires concentration and intense focus on a specific topic.

I think it is what happen when someone is reading a rulebook, at first it is easier but the more we read the more we have to stay focus on everything said.

Actually I’m just exploring these various units in hope of finding a way to introduce a balance heavy tank for the Tiger sculpt of 1941.

[toblerone77]

@Baron:

Just out of curiosity do have the HBG units?

Not actually, but I got the 1942 1st and 2e edition, 1940 Global,  1941 and the classic 1942(?) from Milton Bradley.
There is already different sculpt in it. Specially the Tiger in the 1941 edition.

Honestly I’m curious as to where you come up with your ideas. Everybody plays different. Everybody started playing at different times and with different editions.

I played first on Milton Bradley.
Then I introduce the David Schwartzer World War II extension to Axis and Allies which introduced: destroyer escort, destroyer, cruiser, Hellcats and zero, 2 hits carrier and battleships.
So when I bought Spring 1942, I was already prepared to the new units.

Most of my ideas in fact are picked inside the actual set of rules and mixing them in different ways.

Sometimes I bent them a bit, but when I do it, I don’t like it very much because it goes against simplicity and familiarity with some OOB rules.

So it drives me more to think deeper and find something inside the various rules already in use.

Sometimes I fall upon old posts of mine and even for me, I see how hard it is to read (the long ones) and  understand  them because it requires concentration and intense focus on a specific topic.

I think it is what happen when someone is reading a rulebook, at first it is easier but the more we read the more we have to stay focus on everything said.

Actually I’m just exploring these various units in hope of finding a way to introduce a balance heavy tank for the Tiger sculpt of 1941.

Ahhh I see. Yeah a lot of folks see G40 as really complicated and in a way it is, for a board game. I used to have some old war games from the 70’s and 80’s with much more complex rules. When I first played A&A we played usually one or two days a week all day and we used to have rules for weather, politics, etc… that kind of stuff.  We thought about doing a “fog of war” game with two MB Classic editions. I do get where you’re coming from. I’m lucky if I can ever get a game of AA41 or 42SE every few months.

On another note you would probably like the World at War or Tide of Iron series you should check those out. They’re both different but they incorporate some of the elements you talk about.

[baron Münchhausen]

Thanks for the advice.

If you still have time, see the next post below.

[baron Münchhausen]

@Baron:

However,
if  I try to input this one (since there is a 1941 sculpt for it.)
Slow Heavy Tank (Tiger)    A4D4M1C7, 2 hits, no blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.

Raise the question:
7 OOB tank A3D3M2, 1 hit are they better than 6 Tiger A4D4M1, 2 hits ?

A21D21M2, 7 hits vs A24D24M1, 12 hits
(or vs 6 Inf+ 6 Art= A24D24M1, 12 hits = 5% for OOB tank vs 95% survival for the Inf+Art).

Is it a real balance match?
Without the 2 hits: it is 49% for OOB vs 45 % for Tiger chance of survival

Maybe the 2 hits for ground units required to destroy a damaged unit before damaging another instead of the regular take 6 damage on 6 Tiger before loosing 1 (as we will do with 3 or 4 BB in the same SZ).

This 2 options are clearly different:
A) after 2 hits, only 5 Tigers fire.
Maybe it is around 15% chance of survival for regular OOB Tanks.

B) after 6 hits,  still 6 Tigers fire.
And it is .2% chance of survival for regular OOB Tanks.

You see, I’m thinking out loud…

It is clear now that introducing this Tiger will be unbalancing.
Maybe at
Tiger A4D4M1C8, 2 hits, no blitz, +1A to TcB.
At least it will cost 4 IPCs/hit for this tank.

The battle between OOB vs Tiger come like this:
4 A3D3M2C6 vs 3 A4D4M1C8, 2 hits
A12D12C24, 4 hits vs A12D12M1C24, 6 hits for 3 units.
6% of survival        vs  91% of survival (taking hits like BB)

Are the odds too unbalance for OOB?

We must not forget however that OOB tank are M2, and mobility is a great advantage.

6 OOB Artillery  A2D2M1= A12D12M1C24, 6 hits for 6 units.

Which type of unit will prevail?
Any guess?

72% of survival for 3 Tigers A4 (taking hit as BB) vs 25% for the 6 Artillery D2.

I still maintain the special rule for 2 hits ground units that :
the 2 hits for ground units required to destroy a damaged unit before damaging another.
However, any damage ground unit which survived is repaired at the beginning of the next owner’s turn.

In this way,
OOB 4 tank will survive around 36% vs 60% for Tiger (aprox. with AACalc).
And
OOB 6 Art will survive around 60% vs 35% for Tiger  (aprox. with AACalc).

Which both seems more acceptable to me than preceding Tiger at 7 IPCs cost.

[toblerone77]

Baron if your goal is to intro Tigers/Heavy Armor into your game and you play primarily five player editions of A&A, I would use these stats for the Tiger and JS2:

A4-D4-M2-C8 It’s only one unit. All nations are able buy them. you could also limit them to only so many units at a time on the board.

[toblerone77]

@Baron:

@Baron:

However,
if  I try to input this one (since there is a 1941 sculpt for it.)
Slow Heavy Tank (Tiger)    A4D4M1C7, 2 hits, no blitz, give +1A to TcB when paired with.

Raise the question:
7 OOB tank A3D3M2, 1 hit are they better than 6 Tiger A4D4M1, 2 hits ?

A21D21M2, 7 hits vs A24D24M1, 12 hits
(or vs 6 Inf+ 6 Art= A24D24M1, 12 hits = 5% for OOB tank vs 95% survival for the Inf+Art).

Is it a real balance match?
Without the 2 hits: it is 49% for OOB vs 45 % for Tiger chance of survival

Maybe the 2 hits for ground units required to destroy a damaged unit before damaging another instead of the regular take 6 damage on 6 Tiger before loosing 1 (as we will do with 3 or 4 BB in the same SZ).

This 2 options are clearly different:
A) after 2 hits, only 5 Tigers fire.
Maybe it is around 15% chance of survival for regular OOB Tanks.

B) after 6 hits,  still 6 Tigers fire.
And it is .2% chance of survival for regular OOB Tanks.

You see, I’m thinking out loud…

It is clear now that introducing this Tiger will be unbalancing.
Maybe at
Tiger A4D4M1C8, 2 hits, no blitz, +1A to TcB.
At least it will cost 4 IPCs/hit for this tank.

The battle between OOB vs Tiger come like this:
4 A3D3M2C6 vs 3 A4D4M1C8, 2 hits
A12D12C24, 4 hits vs A12D12M1C24, 6 hits for 3 units.
6% of survival        vs  91% of survival (taking hits like BB)

Are the odds too unbalance for OOB?

We must not forget however that OOB tank are M2, and mobility is a great advantage.

6 OOB Artillery  A2D2M1= A12D12M1C24, 6 hits for 6 units.

Which type of unit will prevail?
Any guess?

72% of survival for 3 Tigers A4 (taking hit as BB) vs 25% for the 6 Artillery D2.

Is still maintain the special rule for 2 hits ground units that :
the 2 hits for ground units required to destroy a damaged unit before damaging another.
However, any damage ground unit which survived is repaired at the beginning of the next owner’s turn.

In this way,
OOB 4 tank will survive around 36% vs 60% for Tiger (aprox. with AACalc).
And
OOB 6 Art will survive around 60% vs 35% for Tiger  (aprox. with AACalc).

Which both seems more acceptable to me than preceding Tiger at 7 IPCs cost.

After reading this I think this is the best option.

[baron Münchhausen]

@toblerone77:

Baron if your goal is to intro Tigers/Heavy Armor into your game and you play primarily five player editions of A&A, I would use these stats for the Tiger and JS2:

A4-D4-M2-C8 It’s only one unit. All nations are able buy them. you could also limit them to only so many units at a time on the board.

That would means that:
4 OOB tanks  A3 D3 M2 C6    3 Tigers A4 D4 M2 C8, 1 hit only
A12D12M2C24  vs  A12D12M2C24

65%           vs          25%       odds of survival.

It becomes a kind of cruiser vs BB issue.

Why bother to buy them since you get a better punch with regular tank?

[baron Münchhausen]

After reading this I think this is the best option.

Thanks for sharing your advice.
I appreciate it very much.
I will probably try it on my next game.

Allowing buying of Panther A4 D3 M2 C7, 1 hit (on third turn) and of
Tiger A4 D4 M1 C8, 2 hits (on fourth turn).

[baron Münchhausen]

@Baron:

Which one is a better buy:
7 OOB Tank A21 D21 M2 C42, 7 hits vs 6 Panther tank (A4 D3 M2 C7) A24 D18 M2 C42, 6 hits?
75% for OOB tank on offence  vs 21%
49% for OOB  tank on defense vs 45% Panther on offence.

Maybe this one is well-balance?

Of course 6 Panthers attacking A4 vs 6 Inf+ 6 Art= A24 D24 M1 C42, 12 hits.
3.5% odds of survival for Panther vs 96%.

6 Panthers D3 on defense, it is very awfull:
1% odds of survival for Panther vs 99%.

The lesser units are as usual and intended by A&A system more able to survive a direct battle.

Maybe Panthers are still too weak on defense…

It needs more calculation:
6 Panthers D4 on defense A24 D24 M2 C42, 6 hits vs 6 Inf+ 6 Art= A24 D24 M1 C42, 12 hits.
3.5% odds of survival for Panther vs 96%.
Same odds either Off or Def. of course.

But now, 6 Panthers defending 6 A24 D24 M2 C42, 6 hits vs 7 OOB Tank A21 D21 M2 C42, 7 hits
will get the same as said above about Panthers on offense:

49% for OOB  on offence vs 45% Panther on defense.

Finally,7 OOB Tank A21 D21 M2 C42, 7 hits vs 6 Inf+ 6 Art= A24 D24 M1 C42, 12 hits.
5% odds of survival for OOB Tank vs 94% for Inf and Art.

So I come with this stat for Panthers as Fast Heavy Tank: A4 D4 M2 C7, 1 hit, can blitz, can be paired with TcB giving it A4.

Intuitively we believe Panthers are better than OOB Tank but, statistically, they are a little less effective on an IPCs vs IPCs basis against OOB Medium Tank.

Nevertheless, Panthers gives an effective higher punch for offense or defense.
But it is no match against any Inf and Art. sheer number.

[baron Münchhausen]

@Baron:

@Baron:

Which one is a better buy:
7 OOB Tank A21 D21 M2 C42, 7 hits vs 6 Panther tank (A4 D3 M2 C7) A24 D18 M2 C42, 6 hits?
75% for OOB tank on offence  vs 21%
49% for OOB  tank on defense vs 45% Panther on offence.

Maybe this one is well-balance?

Of course 6 Panthers attacking A4 vs 6 Inf+ 6 Art= A24 D24 M1 C42, 12 hits.
3.5% odds of survival for Panther vs 96%.

6 Panthers D3 on defense, it is very awful:
1% odds of survival for Panther vs 99%.

The lesser units are as usual and intended by A&A system more able to survive a direct battle.

Maybe Panthers are still too weak on defense…

It needs more calculation:
6 Panthers D4 on defense A24 D24 M2 C42, 6 hits vs 6 Inf+ 6 Art= A24 D24 M1 C42, 12 hits.
3.5% odds of survival for Panther vs 96%.
Same odds either Off or Def. of course.

But now, 6 Panthers defending 6 A24 D24 M2 C42, 6 hits vs 7 OOB Tank A21 D21 M2 C42, 7 hits
will get the same as said above about Panthers on offense:

49% for OOB  on offence vs 45% Panther on defense.

Finally,7 OOB Tank A21 D21 M2 C42, 7 hits vs 6 Inf+ 6 Art= A24 D24 M1 C42, 12 hits.
5% odds of survival for OOB Tank vs 94% for Inf and Art.

So I come with this stat for Panthers as Fast Heavy Tank: A4 D4 M2 C7, 1 hit, can blitz, can be paired with TcB giving it A4.

Intuitively we believe Panthers are better than OOB Tank but, statistically, they are a little less effective on an IPCs vs IPCs basis against OOB Medium Tank.

Nevertheless, Panthers gives an effective higher punch for offense or defense.
But it is no match against any Inf and Art. sheer number.

Here comes the last question on balancing these 2 units Tiger vs Panther.
7 Tigers A4 D4 M1 C8, 2 hits = A28 D28 M1 C56, 14 hits 7 units vs 8 Panthers A4 D4 M2 C7, 1 hit = A32 D32 M2 C56, 8 hits.

73 % odds of survival vs 28% (approx. based on AACalc) under the special rules:

For ground units only, it requires to destroy a damaged unit (Tiger) before damaging another same unit (Tiger).
However, any damage ground to a unit (Tiger) which survived is repaired at the beginning of the next owner’s turn at no cost.

It seems correct that a less mobile units have better chance to destroy another more versatile one even if it is cheaper (here 1 IPCs less).

Here are the final stats for these 2 ground units:

Panther as Fast Heavy Tank: A4 D4 M2 C7, 1 hit, can blitz, can be paired with TcB giving it A4.

Tiger as Slow Heavy Tank: A4 D4 M1 C8, 2 hits, no blitz, can be paired with TcB giving it A4.