The UK beast

[Bigtiti]

@Texas:

@Frontovik:

the french or the russians are already pushing quite hard on the german frontline. you can hardly spend anything on fleet. should you spend on fleet, the brits can match more easily. or use American ships to reinforce that navy. ottomans fended the brits off quite some time actually, but they can’t stop 'em. certainly when the first tanks come rolling in, then it’s GO for the ottoman empire and their 19 IPC’s go straight to UK.

I didn’t say you had to out spend the Brits, but you stated your solution to keeping the Ottomans from getting ran over.  If the Brits are buying navy to match the Germans, they aren’t spending as much in India.

it would depend on how much navy germany got left… i mean; the french can build ships aswell. but all this is just patchwork: the question is: how can you prevent UK from becoming so rich? what is the best Ottoman strategy?

[ghr2]

The Germans + Austrians should be keeping Russia on the defensive.  I never see Ottoman screwed the way you say unless the allies are doing much worse on other fronts.

[Bigtiti]

@ghr2:

The Germans + Austrians should be keeping Russia on the defensive.  I never see Ottoman screwed the way you say unless the allies are doing much worse on other fronts.

even so; in one of my games russia was annihilated and italy had fallen. but UK has the money to send over 10 infantry, fighters artillery and tanks every round to the middle-east. they don’t need ships, in worst case scenario the US can provide. france can hold on its own quite easily, causing paris to be unable to fall. i really can’t see how people lose the game, or win with powerful ottoman empire. give or take a round, by UK 10 Constantinopel can be taken. the UK needs to spend nothing nada zero on western front. they already have sufficient starting forces and can use french transports.
just do the simple math: UK starts with 30 which cannot be touched. africa is worth an extra 7, persia 2, mesopotamia 3 (not at start, but can be conquered, certainly with russian support) and then there’s afghanistan, ethiopia, … that’s already 42. double of ottoman empire. austria aswell can’t send reinforcements every round as they would be late and impotent and they need it to hold the frontline. same with german fleet: they don’t have the time or money. the entire game is a race of austria and germany vs the brits. i don’t even believe in economical parity anymore.

[WILD BILL]

We are seeing very similar games. The UK spends all India for the first 3+ turns, and steamrolls the Turks (then on to a depleted Austria). We are trying to develop a strat to take Paris, with very limited results. We have found that as the CP it is better to have the Germans go full tilt after the French (with maybe small 15 units Austrian force that hits Venice on the way), and see if the Austrians can hold off the Russians/Italians (with very little German help). Having the CP go in with just one (but much larger) force seems to be better then trying to march side by side at this point.

The French can muster up a pretty good defense all on their own w/heavy inf buys, so the Germans need to keep a steady flow of units coming for a continued siege of Paris until it falls (you have to contest Paris ASAP to drop the French income). Might even try to bring some more Austrian units if they can be spared through Switzerland to deal with the other allies making landings on French coast. The French fleet is defiantly over sized (2 BB’s?), and this allows the UK to spend all India, and still get some units to France w/min effort. If the Germans keep their fleet together and sink the UK home fleet (forgo the Canadian attack) they can get control of the Atlantic, and force a show down (maybe get the UK to buy fleet), but it is hard to build German navy, and keep units flowing towards Paris.

Anyway, I’m right in the same boat and think that maybe we should start a topic on the UK going all India on Larry’s site to see if we can spark a slight set-up change, or limit on builds in India.

Some stuff we were thinking are:

1. India has a build limit of 8 units (2x its IPC level). May not help much, but we are seeing 10+ unit builds there as their income rises.
2. Change to the French Atlantic fleet in sz 15. Swap French BB to cruiser, and remove the transport (leaving only a cruiser). This will do a couple things. First make it at least the same size as the German stating fleet (it was much smaller). This will be more inline to what they had, and would force the UK to build fleet in the Atlantic. The French fleet was merely supplemental in the Atlantic, not dominate (they always bring over the Med BB at some point, because it isn’t needed in the Med).

[almashir]

Historically, the French should definitely not have more battleships than the Germans.  If you are only counting Dreadnaught class battleships and battlecruisers, the Germans had about 5 times as many as the French in 1914.  If you are lumping pre-Dreadnaught types in with them, the Germans should still have about twice as many.  Of course, if you are doing that, the British would get even more.  The Germans also had about twice as many cruisers as the French, although the French had about twice as many as anyone else (except the British and Americans - but half the US cruisers would have been in the Pacific).

I’ve been playing with fleets that are closer to historic proportions.  After much discussion on another thread, and a small amount of playtesting (I plan to do more), this is what I’ve come up with:

British:
SZ 2:  1 cruiser, 1 transport
SZ 9:  3 battleships, 4 cruisers, 1 sub, 1 transport
SZ 14:  1 cruiser
SZ 19:  2 cruisers, 1 transport
SZ 29:  1 cruiser, 1 transport
(Note:  The British should actually have more subs, but historically they used most of them defensively, since they were afraid of a German invasion.  So most of the subs are abstracted into the “minefield,” which I consider to actually represent coastal artillery, monitors, torpedo boats, and obsolete ships, as well as mines).

Germans:
SZ 5:  2 subs
SZ 7:  2 subs
SZ 22:  1 cruiser
SZ 10:  2 battleships, 3 cruisers, 1 transport

French:
SZ 15:  1 cruiser, 1 transport
SZ 16:  1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 transport

Russians:
SZ 12:  1 battleship
SZ 21:  1 cruiser

Ottomans:
SZ 20:  1 cruiser

Austrians, Italians, and Americans (half the US fleet is assumed to be in the Pacific) are the same as OOB.

So far, I’ve only played one partial game using the new movement of 5 sea zones for ships.  The German cruiser in SZ 22 plus one more cruiser from SZ 10 teamed up with the subs to trash the Canadian fleet in SZ 2 and the French fleet in SZ 15.  They kept everything else in SZ 10 and built 1 sub.  I’m still waiting to see if the British will brave the minefields to attack SZ 10 or go after the raiders.

[KimRYoung]

@almashir:

Historically, the French should definitely not have more battleships than the Germans.  If you are only counting Dreadnaught class battleships and battlecruisers, the Germans had about 5 times as many as the French in 1914.  If you are lumping pre-Dreadnaught types in with them, the Germans should still have about twice as many.  Of course, if you are doing that, the British would get even more.  The Germans also had about twice as many cruisers as the French, although the French had about twice as many as anyone else (except the British and Americans - but half the US cruisers would have been in the Pacific).

I’ve been playing with fleets that are closer to historic proportions.  After much discussion on another thread, and a small amount of playtesting (I plan to do more), this is what I’ve come up with:

British:
SZ 2:  1 cruiser, 1 transport
SZ 9:  3 battleships, 4 cruisers, 1 sub, 1 transport
SZ 14:  1 cruiser
SZ 19:  2 cruisers, 1 transport
SZ 29:  1 cruiser, 1 transport
(Note:  The British should actually have more subs, but historically they used most of them defensively, since they were afraid of a German invasion.  So most of the subs are abstracted into the “minefield,” which I consider to actually represent coastal artillery, monitors, torpedo boats, and obsolete ships, as well as mines).

Germans:
SZ 5:  2 subs
SZ 7:  2 subs
SZ 22:  1 cruiser
SZ 10:  2 battleships, 3 cruisers, 1 transport

French:
SZ 15:  1 cruiser, 1 transport
SZ 16:  1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 transport

Russians:
SZ 12:  1 battleship
SZ 21:  1 cruiser

Ottomans:
SZ 20:  1 cruiser

Austrians, Italians, and Americans (half the US fleet is assumed to be in the Pacific) are the same as OOB.

So far, I’ve only played one partial game using the new movement of 5 sea zones for ships.  The German cruiser in SZ 22 plus one more cruiser from SZ 10 teamed up with the subs to trash the Canadian fleet in SZ 2 and the French fleet in SZ 15.  They kept everything else in SZ 10 and built 1 sub.  I’m still waiting to see if the British will brave the minefields to attack SZ 10 or go after the raiders.

I like this. The French fleet is WAY too strong compared to the Germans.

Kim

[Chacmool]

I wondered if there is a real chance for Germany to invade Scotland at turn 2 with 6 units offloaded from 3 transports, that have been freshly purchased in Round 1 without combat in the same turn or naval mine roling.

Its possible if the German Navy (2 Subs from SZ5, 1 Cruiser and 1 Battleship from SZ 10) crushes the British Fleet (1 Battleship, 2 Cruiser) in SZ 9. The other Cruiser from SZ 10 moves via SZ 5-4 to SZ 8 and awaits the new British Ships to block their movement. One other Sub attacks the cruiser on SZ 2, the other one attacks the french Battleship at SZ 15. If all these Battles end succsesful (haha), the earlier purchased 3 Transports can land 6 Units in Scotland in Round 2 without fighting or the danger of beeing blown away by mines.

By the way, does anyone have a strategy for capturing London instead of Atlantis, I mean Paris.

[KimRYoung]

By the way, does anyone have a strategy for capturing London instead of Atlantis, I mean Paris.

Building a large transport fleet for the Germans while fighting a two front war is cost prohibative. In Global 1940 the Germans can pull off Sea Lion since when France falls, she is only at war with the UK and can build up the transport fleet while still at peace with Russia. In 1914, France and Russia cannot be crushed in a single turn, so the only way to get London is wait until one of these is completly conquered and the other just about to be.

In this game London has little more chance of being captured as Washington in A&A WWII games

Kim

[Texas Holders]

@KimRYoung:

By the way, does anyone have a strategy for capturing London instead of Atlantis, I mean Paris.

Building a large transport fleet for the Germans while fighting a two front war is cost prohibative. In Global 1940 the Germans can pull off Sea Lion since when France falls, she is only at war with the UK and can build up the transport fleet while still at peace with Russia. In 1914, France and Russia cannot be crushed in a single turn, so the only way to get London is wait until one of these is completly conquered and the other just about to be.

In this game London has little more chance of being captured as Washington in A&A WWII games

Kim

This isn’t exactly accurate.  You wouldn’t have to worry about the Russians if you are assaulting the British Isles.  If you are attacking the Brits, they wouldn’t be dumping all their forces in India.  The Ottomans would then be unchecked for the most part.  They would be able to put pressure on the Russians in addition to what the Austrians can provide.  Another thing to keep in mind is you can assault London earlier than any other capital (G2).  Comparing the difficulty to Washington in WWII is a gross exaggeration.  Comparing strats from WWII to this game are pointless as well do to different mechanics in both land and sea battles.  I’m not saying that taking London is easy, but Paris isn’t a walk in the park either.  Just do to the fact that it is specifically mentioned as an alternative of Paris in the victory conditions, it should at least be entertained rather than dismissed entirely.

[KimRYoung]

Let us know when you successfully pull this off Tex, we’re all interested if you can do it.

Kim

[Tavenier]

Their isnt much the CP can do to stop Fance and Uk to become economic beasts. Try and survive with the African troops as long as possible. Build a sub with AH and Ger every turn so no transport can go undefended and pick up easy ipcs. And it makes the allies invest in their navy.

[eudemonist]

Heh, it just occurs to me that it would be an absolute riot if Sea Lion turns out to work better in 1914 than any of the actual WWII games.

[Chacmool]

I play this naval Setup:

British:
SZ 2:  1 cruiser, 1 transport
SZ 9:  3 battleships, 4 cruisers, 2 transports
SZ 14:  1 cruiser
SZ 19:  1 cruiser, 1 transport
SZ 29:  1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 transport

Germans:
SZ 5:  2 subs
SZ 7:  2 subs
SZ 22:  1 cruiser
SZ 10:  2 battleships, 2 cruisers, 1 sub
SZ 11: 1 cruiser, 1 transport

French:
SZ 15:  1 cruiser, 1 transport
SZ 16:  1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 transport

Russians:
SZ 12:  1 battleship
SZ 21:  1 cruiser

Ottomans:
SZ 20:  1 cruiser

Austrians, Italians, and Americans are the same as OOB.

[Derek]

Texas is on drugs
Plain and simple, there is no other explaination to his delusional thinking of the CP always winning and the CP taking Britian and the CP holding its own against the Allied navy.
Either that or he only plays vs his dog sparky.

:roll:

[Texas Holders]

@Uncrustable:

Texas is on drugs
Plain and simple, there is no other explaination to his delusional thinking of the CP always winning and the CP taking Britian and the CP holding its own against the Allied navy.
Either that or he only plays vs his dog sparky.

:roll:

Have you attempted any strats involving the CP navy?  Have looked any strats at assaulting Britains.  You have never shared any of your personal experiences, just criticized my ideas.

[italiansarecoming]

Germany builds transports and a supporting navy. Great Britian builds a few inf in London and naval build. France doesn’t feel threatened and Russia is relaxing.

Sea Lion wasn’t even considered possible in ww1. The Germans figured if they got Paris the war was over literally. I don’t see it being a viable strategy. Though late game I could see it happening instead of going for Paris. It’d shock the allies I Bet

[Texas Holders]

@italiansarecoming:

Germany builds transports and a supporting navy. Great Britian builds a few inf in London and naval build. France doesn’t feel threatened and Russia is relaxing.

Sea Lion wasn’t even considered possible in ww1. The Germans figured if they got Paris the war was over literally. I don’t see it being a viable strategy. Though late game I could see it happening instead of going for Paris. It’d shock the allies I Bet

Except that the Ottomans are not threatened at all and can put pressure on the Russians.  I’m not saying it would work, but where’s the harm in trying it.  Not sure how what was thought to be possible in the actual war is remotely relavent here.

[Derek]

Amphib assault is more difficult in 1914 than other A&A due to A) mines, B) unlimited production in capital and C) the fact that there is no SBR in 1914. You cannot reduce production using bombers on the turns leading up to your assault

If Germany attacks Britian in force and the Autobots attack russia, what does Austria do?
If Austria does not go all west, then the entire western front is screwed vs Italy and France
If Austria does not help the Turks significantly they will be overwhelmed by Russia

[Texas Holders]

@Uncrustable:

Amphib assault is more difficult in 1914 than other A&A due to A) mines, B) unlimited production in capital and C) the fact that there is no SBR in 1914. You cannot reduce production using bombers on the turns leading up to your assault

If Germany attacks Britian in force and the Autobots attack russia, what does Austria do?
If Austria does not go all west, then the entire western front is screwed vs Italy and France
If Austria does not help the Turks significantly they will be overwhelmed by Russia

Is this based on actual gameplay or what you think will happen.  A) move the transports to SZ 9 empty, B) you don’t have to AA London, Yorkshire and Scotland are other options (this isn’t unique to the UK though, so not really a valid argument. C) not seeing the relevance here, you can’t SBR Paris either before attacking it.

I don’t have any answers to your remaining questions, I haven’t tried it yet.

[Derek]

SBR is critical to a success full seal lion on G2 in global 40

Your not so worried about SBRing capitals before land assaults because your not wasting money (tons of it) on transports and their escorts

If you buy a bunch if navy and all you can take are some low IPC tt surrounding Britian, then fail lol
It’s pretty much take London or gg once you blow that much money on transports and a fleet big enough to protect them