@DoManMacgee Totally agree with your thoughts. I also thought that Russia just needed to do something to throw the CPs off their game. In regards to the 1 Inf, I think its just an annoying move people made so the opponent couldn’t just grab free IPCs, but I’ll check with some of the other players to make sure that rule was understood right.
The Flashman Report
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Keep in mind that it cripples the Allies as well if they’re succeeding, although to a somewhat lesser degree due to their naval abilities.
In the end, I agree that not having rail in this game stunts whichever powers are doing well, and more so for the CP’s.
And, unlike trench warfare, air superiority, and all the other ‘difficulties’ in the game that are actually historical, not being able to move units up fast enough to support the front is not.
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Two questions Flashman:
One- about tt returning to original owner- In the case of England taking Mesopotamia (not contested, but solely owning), and then the Ottoman attack and both sides are wiped out. Is the original owner still Ottoman? or in this case the original owner of the territory immediately preceding the attack, which would be England?
Two- As Austria, you don’t have supply lines? As in, no Infantry in the territory behind your artillery? and more Infantry in every territory going back to Vienna? Therefore you would have reinforcements every turn to the front?
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One- about tt returning to original owner- In the case of England taking Mesopotamia (not contested, but solely owning), and then the Ottoman attack and both sides are wiped out. Is the original owner still Ottoman? or in this case the original owner of the territory immediately preceding the attack, which would be England?
Original owner is always the one with their flag printed on the board. In this case, the Ottomans.
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That doesn’t seem to be what Flashman said, or maybe I’m reading it wrong.
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I think you’re mistaken - if you place a control marker, you control that tt until an enemy unit removes it, even if you leave the tt with no units. Its when leaving a contested tt that control reverts to the original owner, because there is no control marker to remove.
Ah, I think you’re right now. I just read the preceding sentence: “If you move all of your units out of a territory you control, you still retain control of that territory until an enemy moves into and captures it.”
Yrs.,
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You cannot be expected to remember which was the last power to control a tt, so if there is no control marker, an empty tt revert to original owner. In the example from my game, there is a UK contol marker but no Ottoman unit to remove it, so it stays.
Regarding Austria, the point about the supply lines is thay’re so damned slow: 4 times as long to reach Rome from Vienna as from Washington. Apart from Maybe France pushing towards the German border, this is hardly a problem at all for the Allies.
Two questions Flashman:
One- about tt returning to original owner- Â In the case of England taking Mesopotamia (not contested, but solely owning), and then the Ottoman attack and both sides are wiped out. Â Is the original owner still Ottoman? or in this case the original owner of the territory immediately preceding the attack, which would be England?
Two- As Austria, you don’t have supply lines? Â As in, no Infantry in the territory behind your artillery? and more Infantry in every territory going back to Vienna? Â Therefore you would have reinforcements every turn to the front?
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You cannot be expected to remember which was the last power to control a tt, so if there is no control marker, an empty tt revert to original owner. In the example from my game, there is a UK contol marker but no Ottoman unit to remove it, so it stays.
Regarding Austria, the point about the supply lines is thay’re so damned slow: 4 times as long to reach Rome from Vienna as from Washington. Apart from Maybe France pushing towards the German border, this is hardly a problem at all for the Allies.
Two questions Flashman:
One- about tt returning to original owner- � In the case of England taking Mesopotamia (not contested, but solely owning), and then the Ottoman attack and both sides are wiped out. � Is the original owner still Ottoman? or in this case the original owner of the territory immediately preceding the attack, which would be England?
Two- As Austria, you don’t have supply lines? � As in, no Infantry in the territory behind your artillery? and more Infantry in every territory going back to Vienna? � Therefore you would have reinforcements every turn to the front?
Fair enough, just sounded like you had no supply lines.
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Version of the map with 12 Victory Cities/Production Centres.
This has Munich as the 2nd German PC, though Essen (Ruhr) and Strasbourg (Alsace) have good cases based on economic and political reasons.
The advantage of this system is that players can agree on the number required to win; that is the number over the figure you start with.
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You cannot be expected to remember which was the last power to control a tt, so if there is no control marker, an empty tt revert to original owner. In the example from my game, there is a UK contol marker but no Ottoman unit to remove it, so it stays.
According to Krieg though, this territory would revert back to the Ottomans.
Once territories are contested (which happens as soon as an enemy force moves in), they have no “memory” of any previous controller other than the original one. The original controller is the power whose sole emblem is on the territory (neutral territories, aligned or otherwise, have no original controller).
I think the crux of this issue is this question: When a tt is contested, is the controlling power’s control marker removed?
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Yes, because they lose the income.
Or, to be precise, there is no controlling power in a contested tt.
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Yea, Flash was right on one point involving all units getting wiped out in contested territories reverting back to the original owner (one of the 8 powers with only their flag on it). This is done mainly for ease (Kiss) because of so many contested territories involved. He was wrong on his other assumption that UK would keep control of Symyna having had control over it before the Turk invasion began (this turn). As soon as the Turks move in to the territory of Symyna it becomes contested (no one has control). The UK flag would be removed at this point (all though most of us would probably not remove it until the results come in from the battle as we are playing). The results of the battle would decide who ends up with control, and if all units are lost from both sides that would be the Turks in this case being the original owner of it (as the UK flag should have been removed).
Edit: In the same scenario as above (UK has control of Symyna at the beginning of the Turks turn), but there is also a Russian inf there too. When the Turks move in the territory would be contested (no one has control). Say all the attacking Turk units were killed, and the defenders decided to take all the UK units as casualties leaving the one Russian inf, Russia would gain control. This could be something to think about in a Revolution scenario?
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Weird session.
First of all I had to refund Turkey the 2 IPCs for Smyrna. The bank of England reluctantly handed over the cash, vowing to lay the province waste next time it is captured.
THE FIFTH ELEMENT
AUSTRIA
Cannot afford to waste its army assaulting Rome without more reinforcements, so a couple of units move through to take Naples.
Ukraine is successfully invested by slaughtering all 10 Russian defenders.
Then I have to face the Revolution business. Its really entirely in the interests of the Allies to have the revolution. It denies Moscow to the enemy (while large CP forces are stranded in the east.) A large British force is building up in Archangel to retake Russian tt from the Central Powers (I assume this is still “liberated”, but it does deny the cash to the CPs.)
So, the CP lose their capital objective but they’ll still have to fight for Russian tt if they want to keep its income.Russia is planning to move an infantry each into empty Belarus and Livonia, not so much to defend them but to sucker Germany into having to take them and thus fulfill Revolutionary requirements.
Then a rule question crops up: can I voluntarily demote a unit to an infantry during movement in order to attack two different areas, if my advanced army has only one infantry? (Question posted in the FAQ.)
My guess is no, but it seems rather unfair that a large stack can only attack one tt. Make sure you don’t sacrifice too many infantry if you’re on the attack.This question occurred because Russia has a large garrison contesting Sevastopol. Most are artillery, and it has fighter support, but only 1 infantry.
They want to pull this force back to Tartarstan and ultimately to Moscow, while leaving a unit there to deny the tt to the Turks. But with only one infantry they cannot do both.The idea of Munich as the 2nd German production centre is growing on me (see the above map). Its far enough away from the French border, but means that Germany can move new units to any home tt in one turn.
Lorraine becomes the middle ground between the two, which seems right; though there is still that sneaky attack through Switzerland. -
Can’t really continue 'till I get a n official ruling on the Revolution rules questions I posted in the FAQ.
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OK, now we can continue with
THE FIFTH ELEMENT
GERMANIA
Still not convinced that a Revolution would be a good thing, Germany moves forwards into Livonia and Belarus. The main eastern army concentrates in Livonia confronting the British Karelian army, the idea being that the Austrians in Ukraine can reinforce Belarus if needed. Germany also builds a transport with the idea of bringing reinforcements to the east more quickly.
The western front is reinforced, but large Allied armies are building against the Germans.
FRANKIA
France is now ready for a war of reckoning with Germany, and pushes a large army into Alsace.
It has 3 fighters, 11 infantry and 7 artillery; the Germans have no air support for their 16 infantry and 5 guns. I have to use borrowed dice again.
France inflicts 11 hits and receives 13 - acceptable losses in the circumstances. It has substantial replacements channeling through from Paris-Burgundy, while Germany has a hard time bringing up new units from far away Berlin.
BRITANNIA
Once again the Brits are on the attack, retaking Nigeria, finally entering the ruins of Smyrna and occupying Ankara to boot. The Indian army drives the last Turk out of Sevastopol and massively reinforces the Russian there, while the final Canadian corps disembarks in Picardy.
The RN transport fleet leaves Archangel, docks in London and transports 8 units over to Belgium, including 3 new tanks. The BEF moves into the Rhineland, tripping over the badly placed map junction; like the French it takes more casualties than it inflicts but the German defenders can ill afford their losses.In the East the British Russian Expeditionary army attack the Germans in Livonia, they suffer losses but the occupiers artillery is nearly all gone.
Reluctantly responding to pleas from the Italians, the Med transport takes 1 & 1 to reinforce the garrison of Rome.
Britain builds 5 more tanks to cram into their transports next turn, and picks up a big $48.
note: being able to zip around the Arctic passage from London to Archangel is tremendously powerful. The UK thus has the ability to reinforce both fronts on alternate turns, outflanking the German’s painfully slow marches from Berlin. Either give Germany the Munich factory or add another SZ between 5 & 6.
AUTOMANIA
With the Indians moving north into Russia, Turkey sees the chance to regain home tt. Two armies set out from Constantinople and regain Ankara and Smyrna, the first making history by including the first ever tank to go into action. It duly cancels out the one UK hit, and the way lies open for the reconquest of Arabia.
The main concern, though, is in Europe. With the Teutons outnumbered in the west, a bold plan now emerges in the Central Powers Joint War Council. An all-or-nothing attack on Moscow seems to be the only option left; unfortunately the Germans cannot bring up forces for couple of turns. The Austrian army in Ukraine is large, but Moscow is well defended.
Turkey is asked to sacrifice it’s forward army in a suicidal strafing attack on the Russian capital to pave the way for Austria. Only 5 units are available, and they face almost certain death, but assured of immortality by their regimental Imam, they fling themselves at the infidel.
Two fighters confront each other over the skies of Moscow. At the first and second passes they both fail to hit home, but on the third they run slap bang into each other in a head on collision that leaves neither side with air support.
Every Turkish unit dies in the carnage, but they strafe off 4 Russian defenders, and Austria might just have a chance of turning the war.
The British curse their stupidity in attacking the Germans in Livonia rather than reinforcing Moscow.
ITALIA
The Italian Africa Corps reaches the coast of Tripoli to link up with the fleet. Five lire are spent on 1 & 1 reinforcements for Rome.
AMERIKA
Builds some more stuff. Absolutely unapologetic for breaking the rules earlier, due to the said rules having been rewritten after they sailed. Three more infantry are brought to the multi-national Roma defence army. This time they remember to load up a fighter.
Plenty of spare chips now due to several bloody battles this round. The Russian Revolution caused a great deal of confusion, and I still don’t know who really benefits from it. In any case, the Central Powers are now gambling everything on an Austrian push for Moscow.
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THE SIXTH SENSE
Austria narrowly failed to take Moscow, and is still losing the buildup in Rome, despite sending every new unit there. Just too far away…
Russia breathes again and reinforces the capital.
Germany send the navy to help an invasion of Karelia, which is taken. But will the Allies play ball and allow the Revolution? Thew western front is reinforced.
France is content to build up in Lorraine but launches a flanking attack to take Switzerland.
Britain closes in on the last German in Africa and ships the remaining African troops over the Red Sea to defend TJ. A new Indian army is built, and another 8 units to ship over the channel.
A massive attack in Ruhr wears down the Germans further, and the Royal Tank Corps is beginning to prove useful in reducing infantry casualties. But would 10 infantry divisions have been more useful?Turkey retakes undefended Syria, and Tartarstan falls to the remnant of their First Army. A large force takes Mesopotamia and faces the new British Indian army over an empty Persia, keeping a wary eye on the old one garrisoned in Sevastopol.
Italy places another infantry in the Rome garrison.
USA builds a massive stack of infantry, and now has the French navy to help ship them over. Two more units reinforce Rome, but should the main American puss now be further north?
Western Europe is getting very crowded now that the French and British have added tank stacks to their armies. The fact that these tts (Lorraine, Belgium, Rhine) lie along a geological fault line causing the land to rise upwards in places does not help, and many stacks go a topplin’.
I’m prepared to give tanks the benefit of the doubt at this stage, in large armies of mixed units which attack every turn they are a definite benefit. If you’re holding the line on one front they are a waste of money. Build if you can afford, but only when you want to go all out on the attack.
Perhaps Paris-Moscow is the best chance for the CPs, but if the Russians go rebel what do you do then? Rome is difficult enough to take when you’re been going for it from day one.
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Perhaps Paris-Moscow is the best chance for the CPs, but if the Russians go rebel what do you do then? Rome is difficult enough to take when you’re been going for it from day one.
Then don’t take more than 2 territories adjacent to Moscow…
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You could just house rule than if Russa revolts it still counts as a victory city…
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Then the allies would never revolt.
Edit: After I post I sense sarcasm…
House rule the axis decide ;)
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Then the allies would never revolt.
Edit: After I post I sense sarcasm…
House rule the axis decide ;)
No sarcasm, if Moscow is taken, it counts as Victory City, if it Revolts, still counts as Victory point.
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USA builds a massive stack of infantry, and now has the French navy to help ship them over. Two more units reinforce Rome, but should the main American puss now be further north?
America’s kitty is exactly where it should be.
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