Here are our updated rules. Added some new pieces and changed a few Enhancements. TheBunkerRulesV3.pdf
Face-to-Face Tournament Rules
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Then again, like you said we may be getting ahead of ourselves here.� � We haven’t played the new game yet or know if it will bring in a good draw. In either case, I am against AA50 winners getting an automatic bid to a Masters that has a completely different game- assuming that its 42 2nd ed.
FWIW I agree with this.
Squirecam,
Excuse my limit of texting vocabulary but what is FWIW?
As for the Masters and AA50 if the game ends up being 1942 2nd ed. I don’t see a problem with it in the first year. We did that the first time we did the Masters wit the old game. And you have to admit, if you win a AA50 tournament, you are good enough to get into the Masters…wouldn’t you think so?
So, we need to see what the numbers are like and go from there.
Again, the main reason for the Masters was to pick out the top players and give others a chance to win at another event. This should be no different. With QT’s it would get us to hopefully have more show at the CON.
As for MM, he is completely spot on regarding alternates. Normally we needed 2 if not 3. Some years we needed them, while others, everyone showed…
As for the non-CON QT’s, yes, again, it would have to be under the same time frame and conditions. I guess if someone wanted to cheat they could, but it would only hurt them in the long run when it came time to play FTF without all the support systems, calculators as well as the time factor…
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Then again, like you said we may be getting ahead of ourselves here.� � We haven’t played the new game yet or know if it will bring in a good draw. In either case, I am against AA50 winners getting an automatic bid to a Masters that has a completely different game- assuming that its 42 2nd ed.
FWIW I agree with this.
Squirecam,
Excuse my limit of texting vocabulary but what is FWIW?Â
As for the Masters and AA50 if the game ends up being 1942 2nd ed. I don’t see a problem with it in the first year. We did that the first time we did the Masters wit the old game. And you have to admit, if you win a AA50 tournament, you are good enough to get into the Masters…wouldn’t you think so?
So, we need to see what the numbers are like and go from there.
Again, the main reason for the Masters was to pick out the top players and give others a chance to win at another event. This should be no different. With QT’s it would get us to hopefully have more show at the CON.
As for MM, he is completely spot on regarding alternates. Normally we needed 2 if not 3. Some years we needed them, while others, everyone showed…
As for the non-CON QT’s, yes, again, it would have to be under the same time frame and conditions. I guess if someone wanted to cheat they could, but it would only hurt them in the long run when it came time to play FTF without all the support systems, calculators as well as the time factor…
FWIW = for what its worth
As for the games you shouldnt mix. You wouldnt let the winner of a bulge or d-day tourney into the masters, would you?
Sure the winner of AA50 is just as good…but its a different game. Whatever the masters game is, it should be uniform to qualify.
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Then again, like you said we may be getting ahead of ourselves here.� � We haven’t played the new game yet or know if it will bring in a good draw. In either case, I am against AA50 winners getting an automatic bid to a Masters that has a completely different game- assuming that its 42 2nd ed.
FWIW I agree with this.
Squirecam,
Excuse my limit of texting vocabulary but what is FWIW?�
As for the Masters and AA50 if the game ends up being 1942 2nd ed.� I don’t see a problem with it in the first year.� We did that the first time we did the Masters wit the old game.� And you have to admit, if you win a AA50 tournament, you are good enough to get into the Masters…wouldn’t you think so?
So, we need to see what the numbers are like and go from there.
Again, the main reason for the Masters was to pick out the top players and give others a chance to win at another event.� This should be no different.� With QT’s it would get us to hopefully have more show at the CON.
As for MM, he is completely spot on regarding alternates.� Normally we needed 2 if not 3.� Some years we needed them, while others, everyone showed…
As for the non-CON QT’s, yes, again, it would have to be under the same time frame and conditions.� I guess if someone wanted to cheat they could, but it would only hurt them in the long run when it came time to play FTF without all the support systems, calculators as well as the time factor…
FWIW = for what its worth
As for the games you shouldnt mix. You wouldnt let the winner of a bulge or d-day tourney into the masters, would you?
Sure the winner of AA50 is just as good…but its a different game. Whatever the masters game is, it should be uniform to qualify.
Charles,
I agree here with the premise by which you are going on, but again, this being the first year back to the Masters, I believe you can make exceptions and if the games are similar enough it shouldn’t be a problem. Your example for Bulge and D-Day in reference to choosing the game is like comparing applies and oranges.
And I agree with your line of thought that we have to first see how the 1942 event this year is even attended. Meaning, If we have 4 teams again like last year, what good is it having the top 3 go? And because of the situation with AA50, I don’t really see that being the game of choice for the Masters, even though, I would prefer that…
So, I don’t see a problem having the top 2 AA50 teams, top 2 1942 teams, and then go from there…
Also, if we are taking QT’s from other locales that I don’t run, it won’t really be the same either. There will be differences…so, not sure I see the harm?
Now, you haven’t been dancing with any dragons lately now have you…three weeks. Can’t wait…
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As for the non-CON QT’s, yes, again, it would have to be under the same time frame and conditions. I guess if someone wanted to cheat they could, but it would only hurt them in the long run when it came time to play FTF without all the support systems, calculators as well as the time factor…
Greg,
So, I see that you are open to an AA.org qualifier??? As far as format the best we could do is do it in 5 or 6 hours (set dates for rounds and time them) and use your format from GenCon or wait for the newest format which you said you usually do in February.
As far as Battle Calculators there is nothing we can do about that- those comes with the TripleA software and besides that people could really just use a regular calc and do the crunching on pencil/paper anyway. But like you said, this would hurt them in the long run with the FTF Masters for the winner that makes it there. If you are willing to go with that then we we’re good. We would probably do the tournament sometime between March and May next year.
In the Dominion online qualifier, the program had a point/card counter (which BTW the rules state you can count the cards in the discard anyway). Things like this aren’t a huge deal b/c everyone had access to it. I disagree with the point you make that this is “cheating”. Its not cheating at all if everyone has access to it. However, it would be cheating at your FTF tourny…which reminds me of a few things I would like to share with you…
1. When I came to Gen Con a few years back I DID see players using paper and pencil with games. If you don’t allow BattleCalculators on Phone apps then you shouldn’t allow anything. You need to state this in all your tourny format documents. “No materials allowed at the game tables (examples- cell phone need to be turned on vibrate and concealed, iPods, crib sheets, paper/pencils, battle calculator or any other extra materials)” I did this for the Dominion Qualifier in Detroit and it worked fine. Again it was OK for the online qualifier but not for FTF. I understand the reasoning after running a qualifier now.
2. Prizes- I know you have a nice prize stash for the winners at Gencon and Origins. However, having a prize for everyone there is huge. For example at the Dominion qualifier, we charged $5 for the tourny. With that cash I was able to buy prizes for everyone. RioGrandeGames gave me free promos for everyone+ we had free raffles for the new Base Cards -$11 a piece- we got 8 of them. Plenty of prizes went out and people left the tournament at least getting something and several others much more. This made people very happy and I got rave reviews about the tourny online and in-person.
For AA, I would ask WOTC if they have any cheap giveaways and for all the players that come- free raffle them off. For example I would ask them for things like the old IC pieces or IPC money maybe. For an event like yours they should be putting out some things for everyone coming. Personally if it was me I would get the cheap extra AA pieces and money at HistoricalBoardGaming.com. It pays to have a lot of cheap, mass quantity items to give away by the dozens. Its nice to have the big prizes (trophies, games) for the winners but that can get expensive I’m sure unless WOTC is putting out the $$$$ for that. Maybe you already do this- just wanted to share some thoughts on what worked with us on the Dominion side of things.
3. AA50 qualifiers for the first year only- meh…whatever- I guess that’s OK, though I’m more of a purest- 42 is a different game, I say make them earn it!!!
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1. When I came to Gen Con a few years back I DID see players using paper and pencil with games. If you don’t allow BattleCalculators on Phone apps then you shouldn’t allow anything. You need to state this in all your tourny format documents. "No materials allowed at the game tables (examples- cell phone need to be turned on vibrate and concealed, iPods, crib sheets, paper/pencils, battle calculator or any other extra materials)" I did this for the Dominion Qualifier in Detroit and it worked fine. Again it was OK for the online qualifier but not for FTF. I understand the reasoning after running a qualifier now.
Most (but not all) use paper and pen to keep track of IPC and dont use the cash. This will be true of AA42 2nd ed, as the game doesnt even come with IPC bills, but tells you to use paper and pen…
What isnt allowed are calculators or Triple A battle calculators. But if you have math skills you are allowed to use them.
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So then paper and pens CAN be used. You know that they will be used for more than just tracking IPCs right??? There is no way to regulate that efficiently so I guess Greg is OK with that. I’ll assume the paper and pens are provided by the GM since the game doesn’t come with them right???
On one hand I understand why you don’t allow the BattleCalc on the other hand it just seems nit-picky. Its a $2 app on a smartphone. In fact, if I played I’d even let my opponent use it for crying out loud.
Actually its free on the website to use and nearly everyone has a smartphone now. You could also set up a laptop or two and let people use the app if needed. Its helpful a couple of times during the game. Well, I don’t want to get into an argument about it…bottom line Greg and I are on polar opposites when it comes to issues like this. He has elected not to have them so it his tourny and I have to respect that. You can’t convince me that its “cheating” if everyone has the ability to bring/use one though.
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So then paper and pens CAN be used. � You know that they will be used for more than just tracking IPCs right??? � There is no way to regulate that efficiently so I guess Greg is OK with that. � I’ll assume the paper and pens are provided by the GM since the game doesn’t come with them right???
On one hand I understand why you don’t allow the BattleCalc on the other hand it just seems nit-picky. � Its a $2 app on a smartphone. � In fact, if I played I’d even let my opponent use it for crying out loud. �
Actually its free on the website to use and nearly everyone has a smartphone now. � You could also set up a laptop or two and let people use the app if needed. � Its helpful a couple of times during the game. � Well, I don’t want to get into an argument about it…bottom line Greg and I are on polar opposites when it comes to issues like this. � He has elected not to have them so it his tourny and I have to respect that. � You can’t convince me that its “cheating” if everyone has the ability to bring/use one though.
There is a difference between “you” doing the math and a program doing it and giving win% as opposed to OP and DP and avg hits. Its moot though. AA42 does not provide IPC’s but tells you to use paper/pen.
No doubt you can use it since you must have it anyways.
If you cant do OP/DP math…team with someone who can. ;)
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So then paper and pens CAN be used. � You know that they will be used for more than just tracking IPCs right??? � There is no way to regulate that efficiently so I guess Greg is OK with that. � I’ll assume the paper and pens are provided by the GM since the game doesn’t come with them right???
On one hand I understand why you don’t allow the BattleCalc on the other hand it just seems nit-picky. � Its a $2 app on a smartphone. � In fact, if I played I’d even let my opponent use it for crying out loud. �
Actually its free on the website to use and nearly everyone has a smartphone now. � You could also set up a laptop or two and let people use the app if needed. � Its helpful a couple of times during the game. � Well, I don’t want to get into an argument about it…bottom line Greg and I are on polar opposites when it comes to issues like this. � He has elected not to have them so it his tourny and I have to respect that. � You can’t convince me that its “cheating” if everyone has the ability to bring/use one though.
There is a difference between “you” doing the math and a program doing it and giving win% as opposed to OP and DP and avg hits. Its moot though. AA42 does not provide IPC’s but tells you to use paper/pen.
No doubt you can use it since you must have it anyways.
If you cant do OP/DP math…team with someone who can. ;)
Not to get technical, but technically you can ONLY use that paper and pencil for IPC tracking, according to the rules- not for extra math. So the question is since you can’t really regulate all that paper tracking, if one can track buys and moves and IPC and battles with that paper then why not allow the always available free AA app???
I mean if your gonna be technical and say that the “game doesn’t come with a BCalc” then how will you ensure that ALL people are using the paper and pencil for IPC tracking only- according to the rules.
I know I’m getting real nitty gritty here but do you see what I’m saying???
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Paper and pen are allowed for tracking IPC and some people will do some math on them as well - that is perfectly legal.
Things not allowed are computers, mobile apps, calculators, spying (this hasn’t happened in a long time, but there used to be issues with members of a team walking around and watching and noting other games and what some other teams were doing), excessive stalling, using any dice that your opponent cannot also use. There are probably other things I am missing ATM.
Now - during a game sometimes you will have people allow some flexibility in the ‘rules’ but this is not required nor is uniform. An example of this might be that a team makes a buy - then goes to layout their combat - but before ANY dice are rolled, they want to change their purchase. Technically not allowed - but - if the other team is OK with it, I have seen it happen.
MM
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Yeah I guess these are the kind of things that I would clear up before the game started. “Are we going to use paper and pencil for anything???” “Will it be OK to change the buys after a combat move if no dice for any battles have been rolled.” With the improvement of technology- especially phones it will be harder and harder to accuse someone of “spying” or calculating.
For example, say I’m playing and and there is a key battle. My partner can slip out to the bathroom or down the hall and use the AA app to calculate- even text back the results. There is no way to be able to micro-manage or enforce these “no technology” rules. You can’t force people to put their phones away or stalk them. Same with spying. You can’t stop. There will always be people who can find the tech angle to anything especially with people who are fluent in the latest technology. That’s why its best to just allow it IMO.
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You are right - if someone wants to cheat, I guess they can find a way to do it.
Bottom line is - we have not had a problem with that sort of thing in a long, long time. If we were playing for money or something, maybe it would be a bigger issue. Greg, however, has always assumed the best in people - he outlines the rules - and figures that people will abide by them. However - if a team tries to cheat - the other team has the right to bring that to Greg’s attention and he will then handle it.
MM
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2. Prizes- I know you have a nice prize stash for the winners at Gencon and Origins. However, having a prize for everyone there is huge. For example at the Dominion qualifier, we charged $5 for the tourny. With that cash I was able to buy prizes for everyone. RioGrandeGames gave me free promos for everyone+ we had free raffles for the new Base Cards -$11 a piece- we got 8 of them. Plenty of prizes went out and people left the tournament at least getting something and several others much more. This made people very happy and I got rave reviews about the tourny online and in-person.
For AA, I would ask WOTC if they have any cheap giveaways and for all the players that come- free raffle them off. For example I would ask them for things like the old IC pieces or IPC money maybe. For an event like yours they should be putting out some things for everyone coming. Personally if it was me I would get the cheap extra AA pieces and money at HistoricalBoardGaming.com. It pays to have a lot of cheap, mass quantity items to give away by the dozens. Its nice to have the big prizes (trophies, games) for the winners but that can get expensive I’m sure unless WOTC is putting out the $$$$ for that. Maybe you already do this- just wanted to share some thoughts on what worked with us on the Dominion side of things.
Q, I know you have not been to GEN CON in awhile, but basically, we do this now. We have a prize give away on Sunday around noon-1pm for all those that participated in any 1 AA event. I give out door prize tickets and give away tons of stuff for everyone.
And with that being said, I always trying and have enough for most if not all that come and play. Like a pen or something…and a lot of stuff does already come from vendors like HBG (thanks Doug!)…
I guess this brings up a point that must be brought to light regarding anyone that questions what we do and why we do what we do at the CON’s. If someone hasn’t been there, and hasn’t been there more recently, how can anyone say anything negative about players, the rules systems, prizes etc. for anything we do for FTF play without knowing all the facts? And then proceed in making comments on threads and eventually causing a big stir…?
Hey, we will be the first ones to say we don’t know everything about FTF play and AA in general and are ALWAYS OPEN to new ideas, suggestions and the like. It is just when onlinerss (and that includes those that play FTF online, I guess if that is possible, but then that is where my lack of knowledge about playing online starts and stops and I won’t make comments on how that version of AA is played or what works better for that crowd) start jumping the gun before they really know and can comment on the experience first hand.
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Ok, onto the topic of online calculaters etc.
First off, I want to start off with a boring story that I heard on the radio the other day regarding the Colorado shooting at the Batman movie…
The guest was talking about one of the biggest problems we have in society has to do with the younger generation not being able to cope with society and a lot of it has to do with the fact that they are so techniologically driven, it is like don’t know how to interact FTF with others. THey were saying that it is so sad that the younger generation doesn’t know how to communicate with others because it is so much easier to text and avoid any type of relationship FTF. From dating, to friends at school, Work etc…
Where I am going with this is that what we are talking about is kind of the same thing when it comes to FTF vs. online play. I AM NOT TRYING TO SAY ONE IS BETTER THAN THE OTHER, just that, with online play, people do it because one, they have a hard time getting games to play just period, and then there is the factors that they get used to playing without human interaction, when it does happen, they have no idea how to deal with it.
Ex. I believe somewhere back I used an example of a guys that would rather play Settlers online because when he plays FTF, he hates the interaction with others and the possiblity of something completely off the wall that might be logical in a ftf setting but when playing online, would never happen.
The point I am trying to make is the use of AI in a FTF event. I would like that a professor of your stature would understand the simplicity of why I typically don’t permit electronic devices in tournment games at the CON’s. If one wants to do the math in their head and right it down, AND IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND, then have at it. And as long as your opponent can do the same thing without taking away from the game at hand, have at it.
But I don’t care if an app on ones phone is free, or easily accessable to you and the other 5% that might be intersted in that, if your opponent sits down and doesn’t have their phone with them, and doesn’t have the app you have, then I am not going to permit it.
And that has nothing to do with “getting with the times”. It has to do with learning how to play a game for what it is, playing well and without all the ads that one can get off line.
If one can’t understand that, then I have to question anyones understanding of the learning process and means to be good at something in ones head and not using AI to aid us in our decisions.
That is what I call getting with the times and being good at what you do.
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Yeah I guess these are the kind of things that I would clear up before the game started. “Are we going to use paper and pencil for anything???” “Will it be OK to change the buys after a combat move if no dice for any battles have been rolled.” With the improvement of technology- especially phones it will be harder and harder to accuse someone of “spying” or calculating.
For example, say I’m playing and and there is a key battle. My partner can slip out to the bathroom or down the hall and use the AA app to calculate- even text back the results. There is no way to be able to micro-manage or enforce these “no technology” rules. You can’t force people to put their phones away or stalk them. Same with spying. You can’t stop. There will always be people who can find the tech angle to anything especially with people who are fluent in the latest technology. That’s why its best to just allow it IMO.
See Q, you are living in another world when it comes to how these things are played. NO ONE, in their right mind has ever nor would ever think about doing that unless you are an online enabler and can’t think for yourself when it comes to playing a game…
I personally don’t think nor should I, have to worry about something like that. Come to and event now, and you will understand.
No I won’t tell anyone to put their phones away, but if you have that little confidence in your game play that you have to resort to that kind of lack of sportsmenship…that is why I won’t allow it IMO. And again, if your opponent doesn’t have their phone with them, then why should anyone be able to use it…
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I havent seen someone ever try to use an app like that in a FTF game. If you know it cant be used…then follow the rules.
Like the others said, if you have so little confidence in your game…you can try to cheat.
So far no one at gencon has tried that.
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I havent seen someone ever try to use an app like that in a FTF game. If you know it cant be used…then follow the rules.
Like the others said, if you have so little confidence in your game…you can try to cheat.
So far no one at gencon has tried that.
Yeap…agreed. I can’t remember one case? Hey, played 1942 again last night. Not sure how the UK ever builds a Navy in Atlantic. Or US for that matter?
Hey and the Optional rules does have interceptors?
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The point I am trying to make is the use of AI in a FTF event. Â I would like that a professor of your stature would understand the simplicity of why I typically don’t permit electronic devices in tournment games at the CON’s. Â If one wants to do the math in their head and right it down, AND IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND, then have at it. Â **And as long as your opponent can do the same thing without taking away from the game at hand, have at it. **
But I don’t care if an app on ones phone is free, or easily accessable to you and the other 5% that might be intersted in that, if your opponent sits down and doesn’t have their phone with them, and doesn’t have the app you have, then I am not going to permit it. Â
Ok, long overlydrawn Batman analogy aside, your saying here that if I play in your tournament and I also allow my opponent to use my phone also with the AACalc, giving him “equal access to the tool” (heck I’ll even show him how to use it) then all is fair and I can use it right??? That’s what it sounds like to me.
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2. Prizes- I know you have a nice prize stash for the winners at Gencon and Origins. Â However, having a prize for everyone there is huge. Â For example at the Dominion qualifier, we charged $5 for the tourny. Â With that cash I was able to buy prizes for everyone. Â RioGrandeGames gave me free promos for everyone+ we had free raffles for the new Base Cards -$11 a piece- we got 8 of them. Â Plenty of prizes went out and people left the tournament at least getting something and several others much more. Â This made people very happy and I got rave reviews about the tourny online and in-person.
For AA, I would ask WOTC if they have any cheap giveaways and for all the players that come- free raffle them off. Â For example I would ask them for things like the old IC pieces or IPC money maybe. Â For an event like yours they should be putting out some things for everyone coming. Â Personally if it was me I would get the cheap extra AA pieces and money at HistoricalBoardGaming.com. Â It pays to have a lot of cheap, mass quantity items to give away by the dozens. Â Its nice to have the big prizes (trophies, games) for the winners but that can get expensive I’m sure unless WOTC is putting out the $$$$ for that. Â Maybe you already do this- just wanted to share some thoughts on what worked with us on the Dominion side of things.
Q, I know you have not been to GEN CON in awhile, but basically, we do this now. Â We have a prize give away on Sunday around noon-1pm for all those that participated in any 1 AA event. Â I give out door prize tickets and give away tons of stuff for everyone. Â
And with that being said, I always trying and have enough for most if not all that come and play. Â Like a pen or something…and a lot of stuff does already come from vendors like HBG (thanks Doug!)…
I guess this brings up a point that must be brought to light regarding anyone that questions what we do and why we do what we do at the CON’s. Â If someone hasn’t been there, and hasn’t been there more recently, how can anyone say anything negative about players, the rules systems, prizes etc. for anything we do for FTF play without knowing all the facts? Â And then proceed in making comments on threads and eventually causing a big stir…?
Hey, we will be the first ones to say we don’t know everything about FTF play and AA in general and are ALWAYS OPEN to new ideas, suggestions and the like. Â It is just when onlinerss (and that includes those that play FTF online, I guess if that is possible, but then that is where my lack of knowledge about playing online starts and stops and I won’t make comments on how that version of AA is played or what works better for that crowd) start jumping the gun before they really know and can comment on the experience first hand.
This is good to hear, my apologies- it has been a few years since I came.
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The point I am trying to make is the use of AI in a FTF event. � I would like that a professor of your stature would understand the simplicity of why I typically don’t permit electronic devices in tournment games at the CON’s. � If one wants to do the math in their head and right it down, AND IT DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GAME AT HAND, then have at it. � **And as long as your opponent can do the same thing without taking away from the game at hand, have at it. **
But I don’t care if an app on ones phone is free, or easily accessable to you and the other 5% that might be intersted in that, if your opponent sits down and doesn’t have their phone with them, and doesn’t have the app you have, then I am not going to permit it. �Â
Ok, long overlydrawn Batman analogy aside, your saying here that if I play in your tournament and I also allow my opponent to use my phone also with the AACalc, giving him “equal access to the tool” (heck I’ll even show him how to use it) then all is fair and I can use it right??? That’s what it sounds like to me.
You cannot use electronic calculators. Period.
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