Taranto and Axis responses to Taranto in G40(A3 final)

[Cow]

protecting egypt is easy for uk to hold as long as you are conservative with your units there. Leave iraq to Russia. Leave brazil to uk (usually he has a transport survivor up top)
~
convoying 97 is no more expensive than buying a fleet to drop men on normandy/holland. you just get better results and you can drop on greece if you want to.
~

Yes axis should sink as much as possible to prevent a congregation of the naval (as garg says, “leave it to the luffewaffe, since it is easier for him.” Yes italy should buy naval like destroyer or sub. Yes, if you can keep italy in the game, your odds of winning the game is strong, because italy does annoying things that matter.

[Guest]

OK that’s nice.  Let’s allow the thread to get back on topic and let people look a scenarios that argue for or against the Taranto raid OK?

[ghr2]

I like to do the raid as UK, but it depends on how much of the german navy is left alive around the home islands.  You would basically force a sealion when you actually preform the raid however.  And I’ve yet to seen a game develop where US has 7 bombers rdy to attack on the europe side on US3 and still be able to muscle japan around.

What about the idea of UK pulling back through the suez and bringing the malta garrison to egypt to go for the super turtle play(India planes land on carrier in red sea)?

[Cow]

I keep saying this, but people are not getting it.

USA buys bombers to defend london. Japan chooses to declare war or not to, if he doesn’t go to war with the allies then he makes less income than UK PAC, China, and ANZAC for a few turns. Japan does go to war, USA can fly bombers into london thus defending it from sea lion.

5 bombers makes a huge difference in the success of a sea lion attack, that is 5 more hits you need to score before you cut into infantry then tank then fighter, plus it can hit.

So that is that.
~
the other alternative is horrible. the alternative in which italy owns. Germany’s response to taranto is simple: take london if it can or blast whatever ships with air and italy rebuilds. If germany has to make japan postpone war to do london, then USA does not have to worry about pacific for at least another 2 to 3 rounds, because that is how much cushion you get. Making japan delay war to round 3 makes axis have a very bad day and makes the allies very boring to play.

uk sinks italy, germany sinks uk if it can. the cycle goes till germany runs out of air (because he is usually buying ground forces to take russia over… his current air is for keeping italy from being convoyed out of the game)

[seth4god]

Cow, a lot of your ideas have some merit to them . . .  but often come across as a pompous dillhole. We’re not your royal subjects to harangue at your leisure, this forum isn’t your throne room, and some of us actually have brains ourselves.  :roll:

:wink:

[Cow]

questioneer is in for trouble, not doing taranto is rough sauce.

would you like to start a game with me as well? I actually want another game.

He put himself on a KJF clock, Japan just has to maintain his fame for at most 10 rounds and europe will be bagged.

[Guest]

TOPIC OF THIS THREAD:  Taranto and Axis responses to Taranto in G40(A3 final)

NObody gives a shit about your game with questioneer.

[Cow]

Yeah I told you, do what garg says. end of discussion. If you want to win as axis you do what garg says, you blast it with the 12 germany air, because it 1 shots all that naval.

There is no questioning it.

I am telling you why it is a good idea to sink everything with germany, it stalls uk in the long run.

Italy can do the french navy if it wants to, but that is it. if there is naval in 97 and it is only a couple of units then yeah italy can opt for that instead of being convoyed and hit greece.
~

Garg pretty much hit the nail with the hammer in terms of possibilities. Especially these days, most allies are chanting pacific pacific pacific, so yeah if germany/italy put in the work they will get the reward.

[Cow]

I am also a huge advocate of sinking sz 97 or the so called Taranto. It is the only real option given to the allies, all the other options almost equate to throwing the game.

[Guest]

Good thanks Cow.  If you stay on track your ideas come out better.

[soulfein]

uk has to sink sz97. always.

hitting sz91 cru in g1 is not a must but sending ger air to med is a must be; ita has to preserve starting navy, so ger air has to clean med plus might be needed to back up an alex stack

disagree with yugo ger factory, sending air is much more optimal in most -if not all- occasions:

fac g2, newly purchased navy g3, doing something with navy g4 seems too slow compared to constant commitment of ger air to med/africa. not to mention air is much more versatile than navy, plus cheaper

[Cow]

woah you finally made an account. Soulfein play garg’s tournament!

[soulfein]

probably going to, but no idea whom to team up with

[Cow]

Honestly, you are a strong player, but new to the forum so you might have to pick someone random from the forum. That is fine, I might raise an eyebrow if you teamed with Guerilla or another veteran.

I hope we don’t get paired, I play you enough, leave me alone ><.

We should play another game. I like Japan 1 DOW. I want to see your reaction.

[Septimus]

@soulfein:

disagree with yugo ger factory, sending air is much more optimal in most -if not all- occasions:
fac g2, newly purchased navy g3, doing something with navy g4 seems too slow compared to constant commitment of ger air to med/africa. not to mention air is much more versatile than navy, plus cheaper

I give you that airforce is way more versatile than a small German support fleet in sz97. Actually I agree Axis have to use its planes in the Med as well.
But what if the allies put some bombers in the Med ? your planes help you destroy the allied ships, but won’t defend much your Italian fleet. Do you intend to build an early Italian AC for protection, or a German one (in sz93 ?) for that matter ? no. I think an AB in Greece is a replacement solution for that.
And, the IC in Yougoslavia would help you build the necessary to achieve German NO with a ground unit in Egypt, allow you to help a bit the Italians in North Africa, MidEast more easily than if their fleet came from sz93, should Germany have S France.
And it give a little more power to the Axis fleet itself, earlier in the game than if it was purely Italian.

I know it is a bit costly, but it’s still cheaper than riskying unprotected transports in the Med from sz93 to sz97, leaving your fleet unprotected in sz99 when you land in Syria. And an axis AB in Greece, that would protect all these places, would also give you extra range for fighting the UK on the ground, and even later in the game against the Russian.

I see this as a possibly good response to Taranto to get Italy back faster in the game. That doesn’t mean it’s the only one;

[wheatbeer]

There seems to be some consensus forming … I want to throw two further questions out there:

If Germany lands 3 fighters in SITA on G1, does that deter an Allied Taranto?  What if (in addition) Germany sinks the UK cruiser in SZ91?

Does it ever benefit the Axis not to full scramble in SZ97 on UK1?

[soulfein]

@wheatbeer:

If Germany lands 3 fighters in SITA on G1, does that deter an Allied Taranto?  What if (in addition) Germany sinks the UK cruiser in SZ91?

nope, gotta hit taranto. always.

@wheatbeer:

Does it ever benefit the Axis not to full scramble in SZ97 on UK1?

on some very specific cases eg:

-if u want to proceed with sealion and really need those ger air in sita
-if ger didnt feint sealion n uk bought a minor fac
-if u want to move ger transport(s) to gib and need ita air to sink a possible block
-if somehow a nice opportunity involving sita air presents itself

summing up: yep u can choose not to scramble if u believe u got something better to do with those ftrs.
but that “something better to do” must really compansate for huge pile of units uk will have standing in med.

PS: having more than 1 ger air in sita gives axis more flexibility, since they can choose whether to scramble ita or ger air, n use the other for better purposes.

[questioneer]

@Cow:

questioneer is in for trouble, not doing taranto is rough sauce.

would you like to start a game with me as well? I actually want another game.

He put himself on a KJF clock, Japan just has to maintain his fame for at most 10 rounds and europe will be bagged.

Since Cow likes going public, thought I’d pipe in and quote my response to the conversation from our game thread:

"Competitively or friendly game???  Both.  Can’t you do both??? :?  Please, don’t spare me your best.  If you are not going to give me your best then don’t bother playing.  That’s boring.

Also, you humor me in the fact that you mention our game on other threads completely off topic.  Very smug.  I like it.
It flatters me that I must validate you as an AAplayer, giving our game attention where it doesn’t belong.  I like your approach to losing- excuses. :cry:  That’s great material when I beat you here or the tournament.

Also, love your flowchart A-D crap, like you actually know something more than anyone here.  Must have taken you awhile to make that.  BTW, starting you out with the Tobruk attack instead of Taranto is like giving a baby milk.  Gotta see if you can handle that first.  I personally prefer Taranto, always have.  Didn’t get that from you, who thinks that all AA knowledge orginates from yourself.

So please, step off your toilet and save us the jargon and your continuely revising articles.  If your gonna talk, play games here, back up your words with some play.  Nobody gives a crap what you do 8 hours on a computer a day playing “live” games in your mom’s basement or making AA flowcharts. :lol:

Honestly, with 8 other games going, your just another lab rat in testing.  Maybe you’ll pass MY test and graduate to “option C” in my flowchart. :roll: :lol:  “D” being the lowest for babies like yourself.  Had to clarify that since you’re below me. :wink:

Do something for me kid, try playing some other good players.  Learn something.  Talk less, play more on the forums here.  If you really didn’t care about about forum games, you would be posting every other time to validate yourself would you???

I’ll post ANZAC/France soon, gotta check my flowchart.  LOL  Cow you’re a trip, your almost as fun as Imp Leader or mantlefan back in the day.

I’ll be expecting another entertaining post from you soon.  I know you won’t disappoint."

[Cow]

The two are different by definition. In a competitive game I subtract things I might do for fun for purely the sake of winning. In a friendly game I might take risks and do the most “optimal move” every turn.

It is easier to demonstrate the flaws or weaknesses to one’s strategy in a live triple a game, because I can just show you stuff.

You are really screwed in our game man. I am not new, I see how this goes and I am being honest with you. Little things that matter will eat you. Like you should take sumatra fly anzac fighter on it, block with dd in java (that way 1 inf allows you to collect 4 and maybe 4 more unless japan convoy you and you get anzac fighter to india). but you take sumatra instead… this is no good.

Not doing 97, no plan for russia Africa NO. No long run game. Just you rushing japan, this is more of a friendly game strategy than competitive, because you are hoping I make mistakes. You give me wrong impression.

[questioneer]

@Cow:

Like you should take sumatra fly anzac fighter on it, block with dd in java (that way 1 inf allows you to collect 4 and maybe 4 more unless japan convoy you and you get anzac fighter to india). but you take sumatra instead… this is no good.

Not doing 97, no plan for russia Africa NO. No long run game. Just you rushing japan, this is more of a friendly game strategy than competitive, because you are hoping I make mistakes. You give me wrong impression.

You’re not making any sense at all.  In a J1 gambit, the BB is capped so Brits can’t block anything.  You can’t fly an ANZAC ftr on Sumatra only Java.  :? Japan can easily cap the DD and other ships and just NCM through the rest of the large fleet though.  Not much India can do here besides counter land units when possible, turtle and wait for help.  I got another game going where a J1 is happening, very similar moves.  He just pushes through.  Nothing can slow down Japan if that BB is capped J1.

Not doing z97- I agree with you there.  I’m curious to see if z97 is the only optimal strat for Allies that’s why I tried Tobruk- such bad dice there that time- not a good representation of what a Tobruk attack can do.  I like Taranto though, but again testing what other things can or can’t work.