Interesting…yet not really convinced its the bible of Japanese strategy. Doesn’t seem fool-proof yet. I guess I just gotta see it in action. Wanna play a game or 2 of this Cow??? I’ll be Allies of course.
you asked me this on another thread.
This is also one of three openers, which is what I said earlier. Since russia can do something like putting 18 inf on amur off the bat which can attack 4 koreans if ignored… i have to have a seperate opener for that. Also have to have an opener for QQ germany players who want me to wait.
aa50, revised, and classic has standardized moves, why can’t global?
J1 war is not fool proof at all. yunnan stack can be troubling, but it willl have to get out of the way or go to burma. after your boats drop on kwangsi and kwangtung guys move up. also anhwe goes to hunnan with the mech inf following. meanwhile free pickings up top.
Also keep in mind, shan state cannot be hit by china. French indo china moving up to shan state in the event of a yunnan hold is always good… you can have 10 units there for J4.
the only thing that would keep you from owning yunnan with all your air would be british help… 14 inf vs 8 fighter 8 tactical 2 bomber (also 2 inf from french indo china if uk did not hit it with his air)… China is done after that, but you lost 5-7 air units usually, which is on par with what you killed. If the air goes to yunnan, you can eye out burma, hit it with your air if it is only say 3 aa guns and 7 inf… he’ll lose his capital soon enough.
once your transports showup, you threaten burma, india, and yunnan. something got to give.
~ rules reference prior edit april 11 2012, new edit below
Page 12, Europe rulebook, in the Declaring War box:
“During your Combat Move phase in which you entered into a state of war, your transports that are already in sea zones that have just become hostile may be loaded in those sea zones (but not in other hostile sea zones). In effect, transports may be loaded in their initial sea zones for amphibious assaults before war is declared, while the sea zone is still friendly.”
So if you do decide to delay going to war you need not worry too much about anzac ships stopping you from loading and offloading, uk ships you should worry (they dow on anzac turn and you screwed!)
Hmmm…interesting. As far as Euro Axis. What do you do on that side??? Bringing USA into the war round 1 is risky- especially for the EuroAxis.
Counter: Rus inf to Bury then step up into Amur. Stack Hawaii with a crap load of stuff- now that it will be making 75+ a turn. US could launch on Africa/Europe early. Brits can send forces from Africa to India to bulk up. Russia could send some quick units as well.
BTW- as India- I always buy mech- gives India more options for counter attack and evacution if needed.
And how do you expect Japan to get 6VCs with all this???
Good thinking…but I’m skeptical. :|
Well usa has to pick a side. He could get brazil round 1 on euro side… but what else is he going to do? he has a cruiser not a destroyer…
he collects USA 1, places his +23 or whatever USA 2. How many rounds will that take to impact me?
Hawaii is not an issue either. he has a 4 man drop only… with 2 air and a bomber… that is not taking over japan… kamikaze blocks bombardments. Plus I like him in hawaii or midway. keeps him away from my naval. He can convoy disrupt japan while japan takes out calcutta or south whales.
after all… it is so easy for japan to skip india and get anzac, even if I hold australia for only a little bit, the loss I incur would be fairly minimal much less than calcutta by far. I can get 8 on it. more than enough air units. There is a naval base there too so I can blast off back to java and place 3 inf on it a turn.
Like I said, J1 war is for people who don’t screw around and get right to it. It is not for everybody. It is for people who want to play sooner than later.
Plus it is all about calcutta, it is a gambit, you give china access to the burma road possibly in exchange for the full might of japan on india. J4 / J5 is where the takedown occurs.
If you notice, Japan cut UK PAC off by 7 ipc right off the bat, malaya is sure to be next and whatever little island he takes with his transport goes as well. He’ll only make 5 inf round 1, 3 inf round 2, 3 inf round 3. you got 6 transports. you can get 12 guys on it… plus all your air. for him to stop you, he’d need to A) block your transports B) have enough in burma to kill shan state when you move in so your air can’t reach india while having enough to defend india from a direct drop on his capital with 6 air units landing on carrier and 2 bombers (plus the bombers you buy off your minor).
uk needs to be buying mech inf round 1 and 2. so he doesn’t have to keep so many in burma and have the chinese protect burma.
plus you can sneak around to szechwan and have that for a landing zone. Or if italy helps you out with eastern persia… WOO SURPRISE! :D
There is obviously a ton of variables that go into this.
in all honesty, minors on malaya french indochina and kwangtung, pretty much contain UK pac and you can sneak around to szechwan to shutdown the burma road. Those extreme defense players can go huddle up in burma/india all game.
In one game held western australia for a round, moved all my air to it, moved my transports to java. killed all the potential blockers in the area, placed naval base on java… then blasted off to new south wales. that was a great game. I had australia, dutch islands. middle china (north was lost), south east asia, philippines and obviously japan was easy to hold.
I pretty much guarded the islands till the end. that was funny. I started to lose them, but we ended up winning on Europe side, because usa went overboard on pacific - I mean he had no choice at that point. That was a fun, everyone freaked out when I took anzac.
Still didn’t answer my question to the counters I posted.
Well maybe we’ll have to wait til we play on tripleA to find out. :-D
I’ll agree with this: that it is a gambit. I don’t doubt that eventually that Japan can get Calcutta- I just don’t believe they can get 6VCs with coordination Allied pressure.
Also, your opponent not building anything on the Euro side is foolish- he was right to lose- especially when you have free access to both sides now and making 75+ bucks a turn 2-3 rounds earlier than normal- no excuse- pathetic. :lol:
I did answer. Ignore the russian inf stack up top. Hawaii does nothing, out of range of your naval, j4 I buy fighters. J5 10 inf on japan if USA insists.
USA at war round 1 instead of round 2 is little difference. He has to replace the sub and dd he lost in pacific along with that fighter.
USA can’t take over africa with his 1 transport and 1 cruiser… come on now.
The only attack USA has on round 1 is brazil… and technically that is non combat movement.
USA collects his 73 round1, buys and places round2, moves it out round 3, then has to move it out again to be in position…
Even then we are only talking about +23 worth of stuff, which is probably 3 dds (techically he already lost this on J1 but now gets an option to replace or to get something else)
~
I always DOW J2, because there is no reason to delay. and you are only speaking of +23 bucks. He did spend stuff in the atlantic, but once I took calcutta he had to go all pacific, because I was mobilizing to take hawaii.
Try to keep things in perspective please. You blow everything out of proportion.
Yes this is gambit, but it is not much of a gambit reallly.
I always DOW J2. Why would anyone wait till J3? … afterall J2 you can get 4 islands… that’s 15 bucks right there…
So you addressed round 1- big deal- USA can’t do huge damage past round 1??? C’mon now.
Didn’t address beefing up India from Africa units and Russia. With the help of these, India can put up a fight by round 4-5 easily with combo of Russian stack dancing around China. If you ignore than maybe I just take Shanghai since you don’t care. This strategy of yours is starting to fall off the wheels… :roll:
I did address this issue. It’s called minor complexes making inf and just containing UK pacific to 7 ipc a round.
Plus if you are sending reinforcements from africa and russia… I am sure you are having trouble in say idk, maybe, Africa?
Your infantry move 1 space at a time. round 4 you are in korea or manchuria (actually if you are in manchuria you are super dead). Round 5 you are manchuria. round 6 jehol. round 5 is usually where I all inned calcutta or decided to contain. in which case round 6 or 7 I setup to deal with it.
yes you are bieng annoying up top, but are you gg’ing japan? nope.
~
USA is not any stronger than it would be had I waited to J2 or J3 to go to war. The pitfall has to do with china and not USA contrary to your flawed logic.
You are not accounting for the naval japan kills, battleships tilt and repair, he lose dd and sub, he has to replace. it is not a +23 benefit. you -2 pinoy, you -14 naval. please do math. also fighter -3 there assume it get 2 hit.
he lose 19, 25 if you add 2 usa inf on pinoy. he get 23, where is the huge benefit for usa??? i do not see. l2 add and subtract. :X
Yes there is a pitfall with china, it has to do with the burma road. Yes there is another pitfall up top because of the russian inf. Does this have an impact? yes it does, but you are trying to take out a country to make up for it. That is the idea.
There is no pitfall with America. In fact USA should never be a determining factor for your decision to go to war or not, it is better for your income to climb sooner than later.
This is very interesting and if I ever did this I’d threaten sealion and then go hard on USSR. Maybe G1 Barb? If you can take UK or push on USSR G1 then US has a choice. Try to save UK/USSR and build in atlantic or try and contain Japan? That’s a tough balance right there to maintain. Too little of US in either theater will likely doom the allies.
With all due respect Cow, I just gotta see it on the board. I do think that it is a good strat to gun for India right away, I’m just not convinced that the Allies can’t make a fight out of it and/or if Japan can sack a 6VC win every time. If that is true, the game is broken. You’re reasoning for attacking right away is strong. Personally, I may try the J2 route, but I think there are counters the Allies can come up with. Also, losing Africa is no different then losing China. I see that as the same. Moving the African Brit forces over to India should stabilize it a bit til the US brings the heat by round 3.
2 Minor ICs- ok fine- but that just cost Japan the money they just earned on J1, while US is making $75 a turn way too early. With that much cash I could bomb Germany from round 3 on constantly from England and just ship the rest of the cash to the Pacific. I can break the Pacific starting with Carolines with $52 a turn. What makes you think I can’t do it with $75.
Point being, by the time you sack Calcutta- which will be costly. As the US, I’ll be taking back Phillipines, 18inf will be rushing through China (unless you attack the stack- in which case you will lose 10-12 units on average to do so, stalling Japan down even more), and the Aussies will be cleaning up the leftovers.
Boy, I can’t wait to play you in TripleA- fresh meat. :lol:
You will not ever win against an equal opponent attacking USA round one. Baring absurd dice of course.
You do know that USSR can declare war on Japan and move planes and mech/tanks to the VCs like India to protect them right ?
Not mentioning the 18 INF up there in the East.
This is a game of economics, and by attacking USA round 1 you just gave all the advantage to your opponent.
If your playing a lesser opponent, or just hoping for amazing dice, then go for it. Otherwise prepare to get handled.
The Axis hope of winning is to take and hold as many territories as possible before USA enters, thus making at least the same if not more money than the allies. You do not have much time as it is.
This has been discussed before in many different threads.
And honestly i hate the rule of victory on one board for the axis, this is an incredibly stupid rule in my opinion. You might as well just ask the Axis player which board he wants to play on then throw the other one away :P
@Uncrustable:
And honestly i hate the rule of victory on one board for the axis, this is an incredibly stupid rule in my opinion. You might as well just ask the Axis player which board he wants to play on then throw the other one away :P
If this rule didn’t exist, then the US could devote 100% of its income to one side and crush it before the other side can make a big enough impact. This rule is very necessary.
Again I do not see how USA at war round 1 or 2 or 3 matters much.
I generally do the J2 DOW every game, because I can nab 3 isles, while killing an yunnan stack / pushing on china. The biggest issue is china and uk merging on yunnan with a J1 DOW… it is troublesome.
USA gets 23 but lost 19 on the first round. so it is a moot point, I am tired of repeating myself. usa is not in range to threaten anything yet either. on USA1 he goes to hawaii and then his japan threat is still minimal. 2 air 1 bomber 4 guys… usa 2 and beyond, maybe he can buy all naval for pacific or europe, one side suffers more than the other (usa can already do this, just with 23 extra bucks for 1 round, woopy do).
Yes russia can reinforce india along with the african air etc… but that’s stuff not being used on the other half of the board, germany should be making quick gains considering russia is already short on firepower to forgo 3 air units to india.
Also you get 3 more islands on j2 so your income goes up as well.
You guys talk about this usa advantage, but I just don’t see it. He loses stuff round 1 and they kill nothing. So for usa the DOW is a moot point.
This is very interesting and if I ever did this I’d threaten sealion and then go hard on USSR. Maybe G1 Barb? If you can take UK or push on USSR G1 then US has a choice. Try to save UK/USSR and build in atlantic or try and contain Japan? That’s a tough balance right there to maintain. Too little of US in either theater will likely doom the allies.
I appreciate this. Give it a try :D . you can also send all available units to do pearl harbor and all transports on philippines and the rest of the naval there. do the same transport buy and take hawaii the round after (unless usa buys strait subs or something that would cause you to leave the area).
Problem with this is not having anything to defend the transports in spice islands… you end up killing lots of hawaii stuff with no counter, but end up losing transports to take all the islands. It is still fun, if anzac is buying sub/dd combos, after hawaii you can move down and then blast off with your transports and drop australia and merge with the naval down under.
It is really funny to take out anzac players, anzac is very limited and it is difficult to predict japan moves with it (if japan is unpredictable or if you have not faced that player before).
Yes, on the europe side of the board, I assume everyone does sea lion bluff by now, as the carrier and boats you buy ease the novgorod situation and get infantry / art into the fight sooner (instead of mech / tanks which is more costly)… Also you can follow through with a UK takeover if UK sends out all his air.
`to those italy skeptics.
As far as italy / africa goes. germany has a ton of air that can hit usa should he come into the medit sea also usa can’t enter the medit sea and supply UK with naval at the same time, he has to do one before the other. generally speaking Italy 1 you can save up Italy 2 you can get naval Italy 3 you drop alexandria and pwn egypt no problem.
You can usually race and take egy/transjordan and when usa enters you can stay tucked away . At this point you stop buying naval and get ground forces, your extra income pays for it.
USA, can go many directions, but he has to put income on both sides of the board so I would be careful of saying USA solves everything, because in actual game play usa cannot win everywhere. USA is not charlie sheen…
I think J2 DOW is standard play, because allies tend to grab dutch islands, and you have to take that cash away (or face even more infantry being placed in india and subs from anzac).
haha questioneer my standard j1 and j2 dow is similar to yours. I browsed some games real fast.
the allies seem so discombobulated around here though.
@Cow:
haha questioneer my standard j1 and j2 dow is similar to yours. I browsed some games real fast.
the allies seem so discombobulated around here though.
What games??? I don’t DOW on J1 or J2, though I’m warming up to J2 along with a G2- that can possibly be lethal. Interesting… :-)
I guess I am mistaken, I saw someone do my setup give or take a few units. I dled a bunch of games to just pop up n look at.
From what I noticed players that DOW J3 tend to get shutdown in the long haul, but russia get pwned anyway. I don’t see too much iraq with russia though or mech infantry from uk pac coming in to help russia.
I think allies will come around to it. I don’t see why not take iraq and persia with russia for the +7 especially if italy is on home defense from Italy 1 (never going to threaten it basically).
I don’t know, I feel like the longer japan waits the more mech infantry russia gets from uk pac lol, it can end up delaying things. I hate it personally, because then I can’t hold volgograd, which is 3 less units that I could drop right next to russia. I did this to someone and someone spectating did this to me… I found it frustrating -.-
I updated. a bit.
