UK Gov't in exile Discussion - Delta 1

[Carnage]

I was wondering what prompted this idea? I couldn’t find any background in this thread or the orignal Delta thread, just wondering what the wrong is that everyone’s attempting to right.

C

[special forces]

@Vance:

In the spirit of minimizing setup changes, how would you all feel if the following sentence is added to the gov’t in exile rule:

Once London falls and the government in exile relocates to Canada, a new airbase is immediately mobilized in Nova Scotia, at 0 IPC cost to UK Europe.

This way, there is no airbase unless London falls.  No sea lion = no airbase, no setup changes required.

I would like to see this sentence added, plus that part about z106 ceasing to be a convoy raid zone while London is axis controlled.

Opinions?

Why not leave out the airbase altogether then? I don’t see a reason why one would have to appear in NS anyway.

I’m staying at my standpoint that the government in exile is already a gift to the UK in itself and doesn’t need to be made any stronger. Au contraire, there should be chaos and panic in the commonwealth ;)

(so that means i chose version 8 )

[Jennifer]

Okay, the only reason I came up with an airbase in Nova Scotia was so that a British plane could get from Canada to England and be available for defending London on Round 2, however, that plane would not be close enough to anything to be used in Combat on Round 1.

Perhaps Iceland would be better.  I know there were bombing sorties and anti-submarine activities based from Iceland and it’s not too much closer to England than Nova Scotia and would end all the chatter about an airbase in Canada.

[special forces]

@Cmdr:

Okay, the only reason I came up with an airbase in Nova Scotia was so that a British plane could get from Canada to England and be available for defending London on Round 2, however, that plane would not be close enough to anything to be used in Combat on Round 1.

Perhaps Iceland would be better.  I know there were bombing sorties and anti-submarine activities based from Iceland and it’s not too much closer to England than Nova Scotia and would end all the chatter about an airbase in Canada.

I understand the origin of the AB, and in that context it makes sense and i have no problem with it. But giving it after UK falls is sorta missing the whole point of that.

I like the idea of putting it in Iceland because that way it finally gets used. (by the way, without AB in Canada a plane from Quebec could get to the UK via Iceland as well, but that would mean it can only get in UK on time in case of a Sealion in G3.

[Guest]

So at this point, it sounds like everyone agrees that there is really no need for an airbase in Nova Scotia.  It would be cute to be able to send fighters back and forth in 1 move, but is sinking the sub(s) in z106 really so important that it requires a setup change?  maybe not.

It would also be nice to have scramblers to defend a fleet in z106, but what fleet?  Perhaps the enormous American fleet that will be parked there for 1 turn before they liberate UK.  Such a fleet will have capitol ships to soak up any hits from U-boats and the Halifax shipyard can repair them.

It would also be cool if UK could have a fighter that is in a useless position UK1, but that can be moved to London UK2 to defend against a G3 sea lion.  If you think so, then I suggest that one of you propose the Iceland Fighter as a setup change item to be voted on in the main Delta thread.

Unless anyone has any objections, I am going to say Government in Exile shall have no setup changes associated with it.  OK?

[i rock]

I think when london falls all infantry in canada should turn into canadian infantrymen!

canadian infantrymen
atk 9 def 9 move 1/2(2 during winter turns) cost 35 (do to small population)
abilitsy
can blitz on winter turns.
turns enemy soldiers into more canadians after 2 rounds of fighting
fires pre emptivly.

(I joke)

[Guest]

That’s a fun idea irock, but sorry. No.

[Guest]

To help us think about the implications of what should happen to UK Europe’s IPCs when Germany takes London, I came up with 2 scenarios to think about.  Please don’t say “that’s not how I play”; it’s just an exercise.

In the original draft of the Gov’t in Exile rule, UK would keep 7 IPCs for Canada and Germany would get the rest.  The normal thing would be for Germany to take all the money.

Scenario 1: Germany takes all UK’s Europe IPCs
Round 1:
Germany buys a carrier; sea lion is on the table. We’ve seen this player do this before.
USSR moves sub to z111; build includes 3 subs in z127 (wierd I know but watch)
USA moves pacific fleet to z64, fighters to Eastern US; build includes tts and dd in z101
UK builds infantry and flies planes home; activate Ireland with 1 inf from Scotland.

Round 2:
Germany builds 10 transports
USSR moves troops westward; subs in z105, z124, z111, z112
USA assembles massive fleet in z101; build includes 4 Bombers in Eastern US
UK builds infantry; 1 inf from Ireland back to Scotland; any remaining ships to z109

Round 3:
G3 sea lion via z110. London falls with 6 tanks remaining; fleet damaged by 3 scrambled fighters; build includes 1 destroyer; Collect all UK IPCs
USSR DOW, attacks German fleet with 4 subs; Soviet invasion of Eastern Europe
USA DOW, 5 Bombers sink remaining German fleet and land in Ireland; fleet moves to z106 or z91; build navy in z10  
UK Gov’t in Exile; no money to mobilize anything; collect $7

Round 4:
Germany mobilizes 3 inf in UK; no transports available; Scotland taken with 2 tanks from UK; all luftwaffe and land units in range to Berlin; destroyer blocks z108 or z104
USA fleet sinks destroyer and NCMs troops to Ireland.
UK builds 1 transport in z106

Round 5:
USA Liberates London
UK shleps in 2 units too little too late; collect income.

Round 6
UK builds infantry

Scenario 2: Canada keeps $7 IPCs
Rounds 1 and 2 are exactly as in scenario 1

Round 3:
G3 sea lion via z110. London falls with 6 tanks remaining; fleet damaged by 3 scrambled fighters; build includes 1 destroyer; Collect UK IPCs - 7.
USSR DOW, attacks German fleet with 4 subs; Soviet invasion of Eastern Europe
USA DOW; 5 Bombers sink remaining German fleet and land in Ireland; fleet moves to z106 or z91; build navy in z10  
UK Gov’t in Exile; mobilize 1 transport in z106

Round 4:
Germany mobilizes 3 inf in UK; no transports available; Scotland taken with 2 tanks from UK; all luftwaffe and land units in range to Berlin; destroyer blocks z108 or z104
USA Bombers suicide attack 3 inf, 4 tanks in UK; fleet sinks destroyer and NCMs troops to Ireland.
UK Liberates London with 1 inf, 1 tank via transport from z106 plus bombard from z109 ship(s); collect income

Round 5:
USA liberates Scotland; transports troops from Ireland to reinforce London
UK Europe builds infantry

This would be a case of the little Canadian transport that could!  Stranger things can happen eh?

[Jennifer]

I honestly think it is enough of a benefit to allow England to have a capitol in Canada if the London one falls and they need no other benefit at all.

Here’s the events, in order:

1)  Germany, Japan or Italy takes London.
2)  All IPC are lost to the conquering Nation.
3)  On England’s place a minor complex in Ontario, this becomes the new British capitol for the Europe map.
4)  At the end of England’s turn, England may collect for all British territories on the Europe map.

Basically, the capitol moves, you put a complex on the new capitol and treat England like a nation that has liberated it’s capitol.

[Guest]

Why would they need a second minor IC?  They already have one in Quebec and they only have $7 to spend per turn.

[JimmyHat]

My guess is because she has trouble seeing a capital without an IC, much like she has  trouble seeing Paris without an aa gun…I mean its a captial and ALL captials have aa guns in ever iteration of the game…

[Jennifer]

@JimmyHat:

My guess is because she has trouble seeing a capital without an IC, much like she has  trouble seeing Paris without an aa gun…I mean its a captial and ALL captials have aa guns in ever iteration of the game…

Darn tootin!  But more than that too, it allows Canada to place 6 units.  I’m assuming England still has 18 IPC or more for a while after London falls, at least they could put out 6 infantry to defend the new Capitol.

[Guest]

No no. After London falls, Germany takes UK Europe’s money.  All the gov’t in exile has is the $7 they start earning for the Canadian territories.  The will never have more than $7 to spend unless they save it up or liberate London.

[Young Grasshopper]

Is there a version where it says to swap the minor in Quebec with a major once the UK gov. becomes exiled?

[Guest]

No we don’t have a version like that.  It seems kind of wierd to be moving a facility like a minor IC.  Maybe there could be an item in the setup changes vote for moving the Minor IC in Quebec to Ontario at setup (just like the moving malta airbase to egypt idea)

[Jennifer]

I see the gov’t in Exile as just that, the UK Capitol moved to Ontario until London is liberated.

1. Why are the limited to just Canada?
2. If they are limited to just Canada, what’s the point?

I don’t think Canada should start with any money.  Whatever they saved from England is lost paying to move the government and creating a government in Canada.  The rest is captured by Germany, Italy or Japan when London falls.  Basically, like any other capitol which makes sense to me.

Canada collects on the next round for all liberated territories, again, just like if you liberated the British capitol, which makes sense to me.

Likewise, they can use any British complexes currently in British control, as any capitol would.

Given these conditions, it is reasonable for Canada to expect to make as much as Australia or India for a few rounds at least, until the Axis can take away enough land.

Basically, the idea is it is the British capitol once London falls, but to penalyze them for losing London (and to negate the benefit of just abandoning England and letting the Axis take it free) is they lose the entire treasury.

[Jennifer]

@Young:

Is there a version where it says to swap the minor in Quebec with a major once the UK gov. becomes exiled?

Cannot, legally.  Quebec is only worth 2 IPC.  As such, it is prohibited from containing a major complex.  (Another reason to add a minor to Ontario.)

[Guest]

Jennifer, I thought we were limiting the income of the Government in Exile to just UK territories in the Americas.

[Jennifer]

@Vance:

Jennifer, I thought we were limiting the income of the Government in Exile to just UK territories in the Americas.

I disagree. I think it should, literally, become the British capitol.  In exchange for this privalege, the Germans, Italians and/or Japanese get the entire British treasury.

It is my intent to make the government in Exile make England functionable even if Sea Lion succeeds.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Cmdr:

@Vance:

Jennifer, I thought we were limiting the income of the Government in Exile to just UK territories in the Americas.

I disagree. I think it should, literally, become the British capitol.  In exchange for this privalege, the Germans, Italians and/or Japanese get the entire British treasury.

It is my intent to make the government in Exile make England functionable even if Sea Lion succeeds.

I 100% agree with this.