Sea/Air Battle question.

[docfav7]

Here is our scenario that happened yesterday that we would like some clarification on….

One Carrier with 1 plane attacks.  The attacker also flies in another air craft to join the battle knowing it is going to land on the carrier at the end of the battle.

The attacker chooses to kill off his carrier instead of taking the losses on the planes.

We know he can do this but want to know when the planes are taken as casualties?  Is it after the round the carrier is destroyed, or at the end of the combat and the planes can continue?  Or does he have to take the carrier as a last casualty?

[Rorschach]

If the carrier is damaged it cannot land the fighters.  If the carrier is destroyed it cannot land the fighters.

If any fighters survive the battle (they can be taken as casualties after the carrier of course, as long as it’s not a sub that’s defending against them in which case they can’t be hit by the sub) they can move ONE territory to land safely, if there is a safe landing space to land.  If they cannot land within one space when the battle is over, they crash and are lost.

[docfav7]

I understand all that.  The question still remains….

Is it after the round of combat the carrier is destroyed?  Or after the combat round?

[thatonekid]

scenario:

you move a fig from wge>z109
you move a AC and tac z112>z109

z109 is defended by a cruiser.

round 1:

both the fig and the tac miss, but the cruise hits

you dmg the AC

round 2:

you get to keep fighting with both planes. they hit and the cruiser is sunk, but it hits your AC in return

your planes have their remaining movement to land, NOT only one(unless they were defending)

they can both land in holland

[Ruanek]

@docfav7:

I understand all that.  The question still remains….

Is it after the round of combat the carrier is destroyed?  Or after the combat round?

After the round of combat or after the combat round?  I’m a little confused by your question.

In the battle, when the attacker designates which things are hit, if the carrier is selected then it is damaged and/or removed (if already damaged or taking two hits) and may not participate in the rest of the battle.  The planes may continue to fight regardless of whether or not they can land after the carrier is lost, because they’re already committed to the battle (unless the attacker chooses to retreat).

The one move to land actually only applies to defending planes, I think, or if the plane’s move has fully run out (intending to land where it is after combat).  Then it gets one free move.

[Krieghund]

The planes remain in the air until either they are shot down or the battle is over.  If they survive the battle, they have whatever movement they didn’t use in combat movement to land in noncombat movement.  If they used all of their movement to get to the battle, they crash (unless another carrier can move there to pick them up).

The movement of one space to find a place to land applies to defending planes only.

[Ruanek]

@Krieghund:

The planes remain in the air until either they are shot down or the battle is over.  If they survive the battle, they have whatever movement they didn’t use in combat movement to land in noncombat movement.  If they used all of their movement to get to the battle, they crash (unless another carrier can move there to pick them up).

The movement of one space to find a place to land applies to defending planes only.

Ah, ok.  I wasn’t sure about that.

[Rorschach]

@Krieghund:

The planes remain in the air until either they are shot down or the battle is over.  If they survive the battle, they have whatever movement they didn’t use in combat movement to land in noncombat movement.  If they used all of their movement to get to the battle, they crash (unless another carrier can move there to pick them up).

The movement of one space to find a place to land applies to defending planes only.

Augh.  I mixed up the attacker/defender.

@docfav7:

I understand all that.  The question still remains….

Is it after the round of combat the carrier is destroyed?  Or after the combat round?

That’s a confusing question.  lol.  The carrier is destroyed just like any other unit at the end of the round of combat you are in.  In any case, the air units can continue fighting and be chosen as casualties after the carrier.

[JimmyHat]

@Krieghund:

.  If they used all of their movement to get to the battle, they crash (unless another carrier can move there to pick them up).

just to clarify, if that CV can pick up those planes, then it must correct?  Does this mean if possible than the power in question might have to shuffle his planes around in order to free up a carrier to move to the sz?

[thatonekid]

well i dont understand why you’d just wanna lose 21 ipcs of units in the first place!?!?

[Bigtiti]

planes can’t land on damaged carriers? not even as cargo?
what happens to carrier that gets damaged but still has fighters on them?

[Krieghund]

@JimmyHat:

just to clarify, if that CV can pick up those planes, then it must correct?  Does this mean if possible than the power in question might have to shuffle his planes around in order to free up a carrier to move to the sz?

Yes.

@Frontovik:

planes can’t land on damaged carriers? not even as cargo?

No.

@Frontovik:

what happens to carrier that gets damaged but still has fighters on them?

The only way that a carrier can be damaged while planes are actually on board is if it attacks with an ally’s plane on board as cargo.

[thatonekid]

kreig, what if an enemy sub attacks a carrier with a sub??? does that automatically mean the planes die too??? i think so but im just checking

[Ruanek]

@thatonekid:

kreig, what if an enemy sub attacks a carrier with a sub??? does that automatically mean the planes die too??? i think so but im just checking

I’m not sure of your question, but I’ll give it a shot.

If the attacking sub scores a hit in the sneak attack phase, then the defender would have to take it on either the carrier (damaging it and forcing the planes to land one space away or die after the battle) or on the sub, but the defending sub could also fire in the sneak attack phase and the carrier could fire in the normal phase.  The planes could never fire.

[docfav7]

Thanks for all your answers.

Basically a buddy of mine was arguing that if you take the carrier out, the planes automatically die immediately because it would be considered a Kamikazi run and you have to re-evaluate the situation each round of combat.

We argued no due to the fact that the carrier was it’s intended landing spot.  We chose to destroy the carrier and keep the fighters in the battle and then they would die at the end of the combat phase.

Thanks

[suprise attack]

Page 18 of the Euro rule book and page 16 of the Pacific rule book
  My interp. of this is 1 sub, 1 carr with 2 planes. the sub gets a hit what happens …… the carr is tipped and the planes are in the air  if the sub does not fire a second shot then the planes need to land within their movement allowance. If you had 2 subs and they both hit then the carr would go down  I would say the planes would get away because subs cant hit air units
  Those two pages answer the Q’s for me

[WILD BILL]

@suprise:

Page 18 of the Euro rule book and page 16 of the Pacific rule book
  My interp. of this is 1 sub, 1 carr with 2 planes. the sub gets a hit what happens …… the carr is tipped and the planes are in the air  if the sub does not fire a second shot then the planes need to land within their movement allowance. If you had 2 subs and they both hit then the carr would go down  I would say the planes would get away because subs cant hit air units
  Those two pages answer the Q’s for me

The movement allowance is only one when defending. The planes would need to land on an adjacent island, coastal tt, or friendly carrier w/room on board.