who doesn’t?
ya, they rarely do anything worth while after France falls
My defense for Sea lion is no defense, when I see signs of Sea lion I begin planning my offense.
I build a battleship and a destroyer UK1 in Canadian waters, and a Aircraft carrier and a cruiser UK2 also in Halifax. I consolidate any and all surviving ships from the G1 blitz and fly all 3 fighters out of England and land 2 of them on my new carrier, just around the time Germany has dropped 10 transports in the Channel.
Meanwhile the US is building a landing force big enough to liberate London not long after it falls. They will need their 1 cruiser and as many transports and land units that can be built on all 3 minor ICs in 2 turns, plus all their land units and 2 transports from the West. A Battleship or Aircraft carrier from the West is helpful but not necessary (best to leave US capital ships in the Pacific to deal with Japan) due to the big boat support from the UK in Canada.
I do all of this to coax Germany into buying sea units that will eventually be destroyed, to allow Germany an easy invasion during turn 3 which will bring the US into the war early, and to save as many British units as possible.
I find that a planned liberation is a lot less risky than a planned fortification, as far as preserving forces are concerned. Imagine using all your starting forces and spending 2 turns of IPCs on your capital just to lose it all. So now you have no Capital, zero money and very few units in Africa to get back into the war.
Now imagine losing your Capital, having zero money, but now in the Atlantic you have a battleship, a full carrier, 2 cruisers, 2 destroyers and a transport ready to merge with an American fleet of 1 cruiser escorting 9 full transports. The Germans will need to get over to the eastern front before the Russians start walking on Poland and they know that if the lose London they will never get it back, not with the US helping out.
So when I see Germany building an Aircraft Carrier, a Submarine and a Destroyer G1. I know exactly what to do.
Well if I see you spending like that I take London G2 on the cheap.
And I definitely don’t buy 10 transports G2. Ha.
With an enormous land troop buy on both G2 and now G3, Russia is in enormous trouble. You can’t pull back on London like that with no consequences against a smart Germany.
I too would stick to defending London as much as i can (lots of infantry), and make it as costly and risky as possible for Germany to come and get it.
And/or try to take out German fleet with remaining royal navy if i get the chance.
Those are all good points, It won’t take much to take London and Germany may not need as many as 10 transports, but the fighters stay as long as possible making it seem a little harder to take (unless Germany knows what your up to). I have tried this type of retreat and liberate strategy twice against a very good opponent and he hasn’t figured out a way around it yet (at least not before he has to focus on Russia and give up London). The way it plays out is, Germany takes London G3, US & Britain move fleets into sea zone 103 turn 3, US troops liberate London US4 (sea zone 109 or 110), UK supports US transports with big ships UK4. UK get their capital and income back, US sails back to east USA for more land units, and British ships and planes destroy German fleet and clear the way for a France liberation or a Berlin occupation. Its not perfect, however, it is a viable option to holding and than loosing London with everything the UK owns.
What is the consensus on stacking the UK fleet in SZ110 on UK2 to help defend Britain?
The UK fleet after G1 should comprise a BB, two CAs, two or three DDs, and 1 loaded CV. This is a strong force and stacking it in 110 prevents the German shore bombardments and forces them to devote some of the Luftwaffe towards the naval combat. I’ve done this in a couple of games and both times Germany was still able to successfully take Britain (both times with only one land unit, though they had to take hits on their air force to save that land unit).
But sacrificing the RN in SZ 110 means Italy gets to go wild in the Med and Africa. It also gives Germany some breathing room because the the Atlantic will be devoid of any Allied warships, and it will take two turns (more if the U.S. is going hard after Japan) for the U.S. to bring some pressure to bear on German-occupied England and the Continent.
What do others think? Would it be more efficient to husband the fleet (saving it for ops against the Italian fleet, or to provide escort for U.S. transports so the U.S.'s Atlantic builds can focus on transports and land units instead of warships) or stack it in SZ 110 if a G3 Sealion seems imminent? Save the fleet to fight a weak Italy now, or sacrifice the fleet to fight a weakened Luftwaffe later?
@mantlefan:
If Germany buys a ton of trns on G2 for me it’s no question to stack the channel. The only question becomes how many planes to land on the carrier.
The problem with stacking the channel is all the German aircraft ready to blow you out of the water.
@Trisdin:
@mantlefan:
If Germany buys a ton of trns on G2 for me it’s no question to stack the channel. The only question becomes how many planes to land on the carrier.
The problem with stacking the channel is all the German aircraft ready to blow you out of the water.
Then germany will have suffered significant losses with his air, and wont be able to take london with out siginificant casualties or will have to stall till next turn meaning russia will be a juggernaught
@Trisdin:
@mantlefan:
If Germany buys a ton of trns on G2 for me it’s no question to stack the channel. The only question becomes how many planes to land on the carrier.
The problem with stacking the channel is all the German aircraft ready to blow you out of the water.
Then germany will have suffered significant losses with his air, and wont be able to take london with out siginificant casualties or will have to stall till next turn meaning russia will be a juggernaught
The goal of sea lion is to destroy everything British while taking over London. The time frame is three turns ( no more than four). Using everything in the German arsenal to accomplish this is perfectly acceptable. The IPCs earned from attacking French and neutral territories plus the UKs capital income will help take care of that “juggernaught” Russia.
Since russia will have gained 37 ipcs every turn for 4 with no losses(assuming u play it safe and do a G4 sealion) russia should have enough guys in the frontier to smash numerous parts of eastern europe. Either that, or germany will have no real airforce threat against russia (assuming a G3 sealion). Either way, russia will have a solid defensive position if britain blocks sealion and germany decides to commit
Since russia will have gained 37 ipcs every turn for 4 with no losses(assuming u play it safe and do a G4 sealion) russia should have enough guys in the frontier to smash numerous parts of eastern europe. Either that, or germany will have no real airforce threat against russia (assuming a G3 sealion). Either way, russia will have a solid defensive position if britain blocks sealion and germany decides to commit
By that logic, you are against Germany attempting sea lion all together (for the record, I never wait til G4 for sea lion, I always get it done by G3)
Yes, it’s a hairy battle for sure, but I find that waiting til G4 allows the UK more buildup time and I think it’s riskier if I wait.
ya but G3 will be a pyrrhic victory
Has anyone considered a G2 attack on London? If you buy 2 transports instead of a destoyer and a sub G1, you put yourself in a good position to take London. With the new scrambling rules it is even possible to buy 4 transports and still protect your navy as long as you knock out the British fleet G1. You have 70% odds of victory assuming UK has 13 Inf and 5 fighters and block your bombards with 91 cruiser and 109 destroyer. This should be the best defense UK can muster. Germany may take some air losses but should win the battle. The beauty of this is that Germany does not need to build 10 transports G2, but can instead rebuild an airforce and/or an army to invade Russia G3. The sooner Germany can hit Russia the better, as is the sooner UK falls and stops spending money on the board. UK also would have only one turn to react, reposition and fortify themselves instead of 2 or 3. If successful this should fulfilll the German shock and awe doctrine used in their lightning war.
Can you explain how you obtained this figure of 70%. From what I can tell, for a G2 sea lion Germany will have at most 5 tactical bombers, 5 fighters, 1 bomber, 1 inf, 1 art, 4 tanks. That’s with a G1 build of 4 transports. Ave. rolling for hits is around 8 - assuming 1 fighter and 1 tac bomber are killed through anti air. Any return fire from uk troops can be allocated to the planes. So, when pressing, Germany will have 1 inf, 1 art, and 4 tanks compared to 5 inf and 5 fighters. I fail to see how Germany has a 70% chance of winning that battle. Or am I missing something?
my odds calc says a bit different too, it has the attacker at 35%, and that includes clearing the zone. I have 3 inf 3 arm 5 ftr 5 tac 1 bmb vs the 15 inf 5ftrs 1 aa. Not sure what the best load of forces is, 3 inf 3 arm or 3 inf 1 art 2 arm.
@Trisdin:
Since russia will have gained 37 ipcs every turn for 4 with no losses(assuming u play it safe and do a G4 sealion) russia should have enough guys in the frontier to smash numerous parts of eastern europe. Either that, or germany will have no real airforce threat against russia (assuming a G3 sealion). Either way, russia will have a solid defensive position if britain blocks sealion and germany decides to commit
By that logic, you are against Germany attempting sea lion all together (for the record, I never wait til G4 for sea lion, I always get it done by G3)
No, it depends on UK1, if he shows he can block on UK2 then abandon the idea, maybe get gib. I was never against sealion, just its not a 100% ez german victory if UK chooses to block it. If you go G3 after UK blocks, then you would have a very hard tiem both clearing out the blockage and taking london. You may win, just you will need to split your airforce to protect for fleet from scramble which will reduce the firepower you have for the battle thus you will most likely recieve more casualites from not killing fast enough. The less airforce the better for russia. You are guarrenteed to lose alot of land from the battle, and since you would need to keep a garrison on uk to defend from america, you will be slower to reinforce the eastern front. Essentially, the more UK makes it hurt, or the longer he delays it, the better it is for the allies.
@mantlefan:
That’s why (although I like that scrambling is in the game), I hate it when I am the attacker lol. The defender can have their cake and eat it too because you have to plan for both the scramble and the land battle without the scramble.
If you don’t plan for the scramble, they fubar your navy, and if you plan for the scramble, they don’t do it, you have planes wasting effort in the zone while they use theirs on land to potentially be the difference.
I totally agree, it really bakes your noodle.
Can you explain how you obtained this figure of 70%. From what I can tell, for a G2 sea lion Germany will have at most 5 tactical bombers, 5 fighters, 1 bomber, 1 inf, 1 art, 4 tanks. That’s with a G1 build of 4 transports. Ave. rolling for hits is around 8 - assuming 1 fighter and 1 tac bomber are killed through anti air. Any return fire from uk troops can be allocated to the planes. So, when pressing, Germany will have 1 inf, 1 art, and 4 tanks compared to 5 inf and 5 fighters. I fail to see how Germany has a 70% chance of winning that battle. Or am I missing something?
Germany has 5 Inf and 5 art or tanks and would take the inf/art/tank casulties first except for 1 tank and then figthers and bombers. Attacking round 2 is risky - you will likely lose about 3 fighters and 3 tacs depending how the rolls go and if UK dumps everything they can to defend - but you should win 70% of the time according to every odds calculator I have used. That being said, one thing I neglected to consider is if UK scrambles. To prevent a possible catastrophe, it would be best to keep 1 Fighter with your navy, which would drop your land battle odds down to 60% if they dont scramble, but a sure victory if they do scramble but fail to destroy your transports - keep in mind all you need is a draw.
