@nebnworb yea they get the bit in their mouth and they can run all over the place. Little annoying things that if they don’t react and you can support, can really be irritating. Of course they can kinda do the same thing, depending on USA strategy : )
US factory upgrade timing issue, after being provoked.
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at which point does US factory gets upgraded to Major IC, after being provoked?
The rules says “7. All 3 Minor ICs in the continental US automatically are immediately converted to Major ICs when the US is at war. They can be upgraded at any time before that for 20 IPCs each.”
So, effectively. At which point can US declare war, after being provoked by say Japan, or London fall?
1. before Purchase
2. after Purchase, before Combat Move -
My understanding is there are three ways the US enters the war. It would be interesting if there are more.
1. US gets attacked by any one of the axis powers.
2. London falls.
3. Round 4 they are automatically at war.Not sure I understand the other part of your question (not that I would probably know anyway).
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I was talking about the Alpha.+2 version.
http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4167In this setting, US begins with 3 minor ICs only. They will be upgraded to Major IC, free of charge upon USA entering the war.
the scenario is that my Japan attacks jim’s US in J2. I wonder when those minor IC get upgraded and whether they may produce 10 units in the same round i.e. US2.
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It’s an immediate upgrade as the rule says. You upgrade during Japan’s turn if Japan declares war.
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It’s an immediate upgrade as the rule says. You upgrade during Japan’s turn if Japan declares war.
Thanks Kobu for the input.
so by saying “at war”, it means being involved in fighting, even if you haven’t had the chance to make your declaration of war yet. -
Round 4 they may declare war on any/all axis at the beginning of their collect income phase. They are not required, but definitely should do so unless looking for the fabled isolationist victory.
To get this straight, though. If directly attacked, the US is at war on the attacking powers turn. The industrial complexes get upgraded immediately and can be used on the US next turn
If an ally is attacked in a way that allows the US to come into the war. The US must still declare war on her turn at the beginning of the conduct combat phase.
This is where it becomes ambiguous. The US did not purchase the industrial complex to be deployed during the Mobilization phase as would normally be the case. She didn’t have the major complex at the beginning of her turn (though she did possess the minor complex), but there is no restriction saying that you must purchase only the number of units you are able to place.So the question is does the US meet the requirements to utilize the major complex, which are
1 Must not have captured or purchased the IC this turn
2 You can use an industrial complex that you controlled at the beginning of your turnThe US meets 1 clearly, but strictly speaking does not meet 2 (did not contrll the major complex at the beginning of the turn so can’t use it)
From Larry’s Site Rule Clarifications:
Mobilizing New Units
When upgrading a minor industrial complex to a major one, only three units may be mobilized by the complex in the same turn (not counting the upgrade itself).
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The only time this matters, is on US3.
On US3 during the COLLECT INCOME PHASE - The USA can declare war, and collects it’s National Objectives.
That is the only time this concern about major/minor factories will matter. And said factories are upgraded AFTER unit placement - thus limiting them to 3 placement slots on US1 - US2 - US3.
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@TITANS:
so by saying “at war”, it means being involved in fighting, even if you haven’t had the chance to make your declaration of war yet.
Perhaps this quote from the Official Rules Clarifications will clear this up:
If another power declares war on your power, your power is at war immediately, but only with the power that declared war on it. You must wait until your turn to make any declarations of war on other powers that were enabled by that declaration. For example, if Germany declares war on the United States, the United States is immediately at war with Germany, but it must wait until its turn to declare war on Italy. Of course, the United States may also declare war on Germany on its turn, but this is technically unnecessary, as the two powers are already at war.
So the question is does the US meet the requirements to utilize the major complex, which are
1 Must not have captured or purchased the IC this turn
2 You can use an industrial complex that you controlled at the beginning of your turnThe US meets 1 clearly, but strictly speaking does not meet 2 (did not contrll the major complex at the beginning of the turn so can’t use it)
Welcome, SovietOnion!
The use of the word “immediately” in the rule regarding US IC automatic upgrades is intended to imply that the increased production capacity may be used in the US’ next Mobilize New Units phase after it enters a state of war. This overrides the normal upgrade production capacity rules, as the upgrade is not put into effect during the Mobilize New Units phase.
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Thanks again for the inputs. :-)
So, to sum up the issue. US IC upgrade cases are listed below.
1.) US buy the upgrade with money before (or even after) being at war
–> the upgrade is done during the mobilize new units phase of this turn, therefore, the 10 production capacity is available only in the next turn.
2.) not one attack or provoke US up to turn 3.
–> During the US3 collect income phase, US goes into war anyway. turn 3 mobilize phase gone already. wait for next turn please.
3.) US is being declared war on by an Axis.
–> US become at war immediately and IC upgrade immediately. On the start of next US turn, US has the major IC already, everything proceed as usual.
4.) US is not being declared war on, but was given the pretext to go to war. possible cases: Japan makes unprovoked war declaration on UK/ANZAC, Axis capture of London or any territory in North America.
–> it’s a little subtle here, but in short, US will be able to buy in large order. US is still having the 3 minor IC only at the start of the turn. she can make a over production purchase order (20 inf or something), go on to declare war at the beginning of Combat Phase. IC gets upgraded immediately. When US reaches the mobilize phase in the same turn, the now-Major IC are ready to produce the once-over-large order.ok. one less reason for Japan to make a “UK+ANZAC” war declaration than to make a “all Allies” war declaration. :wink: