Taranto Raid- standard???

[SgtBlitz]

@cts17:

I’ve being waiting to try a British tactic where I forgo the Taranto raid in favour of bringing the British fleet up in defense of a German Sealion. As follows:

GB1:
Buy
1 fig (10)
1 inf (3)
save (16)

NCM:
1 tac SZ91 to Lon
1 fig Lon to SZ92
1 DD 1 CV SZ91 to SZ92
1 fig Alx to SZ92
1 inf 1 arm Que to either Gib (if Germany is in position to assault) or to Lon

Collect Income
29+5+16=50 IPC

GB2
Buy
2 CV (32)
2 DD (16)
save (0)

NCM:
1 DD 1 CV 2 fig SZ92 to SZ110
3 fig 1 tac Lon to SZ110

Mob Units
2 CV 2 DD SZ110

Final analysis:
3 DD, 3 CV, 1 tac, 5 fig SZ110 = 6 2’s, 1 3, 5 4’s (average 6 hits)
Germany could potentially attack with:
2 SS, 1 CA, 1 CV, 1 dBB, 4 fig 3 tac 1 bom = 2 2’s, 5 3’s, 5 4’s (average 7 hits)

BUT, Great Britain can absorb 3 of these hits with her carriers. This leaves us with:
1 DD 2 dCV, 1 tac, 5 fig (average 5 hits)
Germany:
1 dBB, 3 fig 3 tac 1 bom (average 5 hits)

Continuing onwards, the British would lose their low hitting 2’s before her 4’s, and Germany will lose her precious airforce. In any case, Germany wouldn’t be able to do a Ger3 Sealion. Those 11 transports? Useless.

Germany could just go around SZ 110 to drop on the other side of England in SZ 109 (which UK could block with a DD).  But they could just drop the troops off in Scotland from SZ 119 or SZ 111 and go from there for G4.  Depends on what they really want to do then with those 11 transports (just go for broke in Novograd?)  Then they build a bunch of subs to use as fodder to kill the fleet next round.

[MaherC]

sea lion or not, irrelevant.  take out the IT fleet on UK1 and it’s an allied lock.

[kungfujew]

We’ll have to agree to disagree then.  You can have your “lock” and never llearn how to devise and implement new and more clever strtegies.  :(

[leddux]

@MaherC:

sea lion or not, irrelevant.  take out the IT fleet on UK1 and it’s an allied lock.

I believe it was also a lock for the Soviets to be the US in Lakee Placid….

[MaherC]

@leddux:

@MaherC:

sea lion or not, irrelevant.  take out the IT fleet on UK1 and it’s an allied lock.

I believe it was also a lock for the Soviets to be the US in Lakee Placid….

want another shot at that one?  here let me help

“I believe it was also a lock for the Soviets to beat the US in Ice Hockey in the 1980 Winter Olympics in Lake Placid”

Feel free to come up with your strats, post them…still waiting…waiting…

[Shakespeare]

:-D  What is the problem here? It is so easy to prevent the so called Taranto Raid:

All you have to do to save the Italian navy is to move the German subs from SZ 108 and

SZ 103 to SZ 91 and attack the UK fleet in SZ 91.

With any average rolling, you’ll either sink the dd or damage the carrier or both. The damaged carrier can no longer conduct flight operations.

Just keep firing torpedos at em both until you lose the subs, big deal; but it will get the results you need to easily prevent the ohhhhhh …. Raid.

This Taranto Raid is so hyped up.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Shakespeare:

:-D  What is the problem here? It is so easy to prevent the so called Taranto Raid:

All you have to do to save the Italian navy is to move the German subs from SZ 108 and

SZ 103 to SZ 91 and attack the UK fleet in SZ 91.

With any average rolling, you’ll either sink the dd or damage the carrier or both. The damaged carrier can no longer conduct flight operations.

Just keep firing torpedos at em both until you lose the subs, big deal; but it will get the results you need to easily prevent the ohhhhhh …. Raid.

This Taranto Raid is so hyped up.

Gibraltar naval base repairs the CV

[Shakespeare]

So what! :lol:

By the next turn, after the carrier is repaired the Italian navy is no longer there

or it has sunk what remains of the UK fleet.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Shakespeare:

So what! :lol:

By the next turn, after the carrier is repaired the Italian navy is no longer there

or it has sunk what remains of the UK fleet.

Huh? At the beginning of UKs turn, it repairs, allowing the attack to go as planned. In fact, since the tac is on the Gib air base, it does not need the CV to land on.

[Shakespeare]

I was under the impression that it took a turn to implement a repair.  :-(

Nevertheless, the Germans have nothing to lose except a couple of subs to stave off the sinking of that Italian fleet.

If the subs keep firing at the dd and the cv they may sink one or the other with a little luck, even the absence of the dd may be decisive, even if the cv is saved.

[RedHunter]

@Shakespeare:

I was under the impression that it took a turn to implement a repair.  :-(

Nevertheless, the Germans have nothing to lose except a couple of subs to stave off the sinking of that Italian fleet.

If the subs keep firing at the dd and the cv they may sink one or the other with a little luck, even the absence of the dd may be decisive, even if the cv is saved.

Not true Germany has to sink the UK fleet otherwise they run around and cause lots of problems. Like making their way to defend India for example

[questioneer]

It CAN commit 2subs to this cause though you will be keeping the z106 DD and TT alive, but it may well be worth it, then again on average you’ll only get the DD- not really enough to dissuade someone from doing Taranto.

Yes, the AC gets repaired at the beginning of the phase.

2subs
Rolls: 2@2; Total Hits: 22@2: (1, 2)

1AC, 1tac, 1DD
Rolls: 2@2, 1@3; Total Hits: 22@2,: (6, 2)1@3: (3)

[questioneer]

then Taranto

1AC, 1tac, 1ftr (fm Alex), 1CZ
Rolls: 3@3; Total Hits: 23@3: (3, 5, 1)

def 1BB, 1CZ
Rolls: 1@3, 1@4; Total Hits: 11@3,: (6)1@4: (4)

[questioneer]

Taranto- rd2

1AC, 1tac, 1CZ
Rolls: 2@3; Total Hits: 02@3: (6, 6)

1BB
Rolls: 1@4; Total Hits: 01@4: (6)

[calvinhobbesliker]

tacs fire at 4 if there’s ftr

[questioneer]

LOL- ha ha- what a bad simo :lol:- anyway you get the point- you may make a dent in Taranto but you still need good dice.  Taking the 2subs to z106 yeilds better dividends (clear sz and take away IPC in convoys).

Of course as UK- you’re a dodo if you don’t do Taranto no matter what the opening.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@questioneer:

LOL- ha ha- what a bad simo :lol:- anyway you get the point- you may make a dent in Taranto but you still need good dice.  Taking the 2subs to z106 yeilds better dividends (clear sz and take away IPC in convoys).

Of course as UK- you’re a dodo if you don’t do Taranto no matter what the opening.

Kungfujew will disagree, saying that it is unwise to waste a DD, CV, ftr, tac, and CC(47 ipcs) for a TR, BB, and CC(39 ipcs), especially since the CV can form the core of a new British fleet(which would otherwise easily die). The Italian fleet only gets to keep an extra transport and a BB, CC which are only useful for bombardment since they usually never leave the Med and if they do, the US kills them.

[kungfujew]

It’s important to remember it’s not just the IPC cost to replace them, it’s also when will you get the chance.  With money spent in SA, and germany always with the threat of an “on the cheap” sealion if you spend all your money on navy.  Plus you’ll need transports and airpower…  If yu already have a core of a navy it’s easier to suppliment it with subs and the like.  You can then base everything out of Malta, or whatever you like.  If you get into a naval arms race with italy then they’re not reinforcing africa via transports, and they’re probably pinned in sz 95 or 97.  Then, once the US comes in and the navy is sunk they can’t recover, since you already own africa.

[kungfujew]

You still get to chip away at tje italian fleet since they’ll cery likely hit the french in sz 93 and airpower from the UK can hit sz 93 and land on a carrier in sz 92.  That’s not to say that I would NEVER do it, but a turn one attack would be far from “standard”.

[questioneer]

What???  Your kinda of losing me.  Not worth it??  The UK navy is wiped out anyway rd 1.  Everytime I have ignored a Taranto- you essentially allow Italy to become a force- most of Africa is gone- Japan can even land planes there and help.  Italy is making 30+ a turn.  that Extra transport is huge, not to mention the cash you deny Italy the first 2-3 rounds or so by doing Taranto.  Its a very good delaying tactic til US comes in mass numbers.

In combination with Sealion, I have seen an effective Euro Axis naval blockade outside of the Med.  Meanwhile Italian land units are eating away at Africa and MidEast.  Taranto slows down that charge significantly.  Barborossa or Sealion I don’t see how this isn’t a standard move- it seems like a no brainer. :|