SZs 106, 10 and 11. I always send two Subs at 106.
Germany True Neutral Crush G3
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@13thguardsriflediv:
So like everyone else here, I’ve been enjoying the hell out of the new political rules and Axis and Allies wonderland that is AAG40. It is turning out to be one hell of a game, with umpteen zillion different strategies and maneuvers to be tried out yet. I haven’t had a chance to try out this particular idea yet, but it seems like it might really be something worth trying, especially for:
Helping out Italy in the Middle East
Opening a second front in Russia
Widening a corridor to India
Holding Gibraltar to protect the MedI’m gonna try this soon, but I do see one slight danger, you are spreading out thin and if one or two attacks (say, in the North Sea against the RN fail then you might have a problem). Or if France refuses to fall, which almost happened in my first game when Germany allocated its planes elsewhere in G1.
Yep. That goes without saying. It’s also possible that at least one of these attacks is going to get diced as well. But, by trying this move out you are officially declaring you are the Axis player with the biggest balls in history.
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I tried your G3 neutral crush, however I was playing Europe 1940, not global, and I have a few notes. The only variation I played here was if UK fell, they didn’t surrender all of their money and kept playing with Canada as its new capital (which actually worked out very well and stayed balanced).
As Germany, I purchased 2 transports and 2 submarines (in hindsight, a cruiser might also have been a good buy, or a bomber just the same). I used all my planes in some sort of naval combat coupled with submarines and the surface fleet. I got lucky with the dice (but I did also plan out the attacks well) and eliminated every UK fleet in the Atlantic except for the carrier and the other ship at Gibraltar and the one off the coast of South America. In turn I lost 2 submarines and 1 fighter from the combat. All of my planes landed in Holland afterwards. I had to make sure all my transports would be in the baltic rather than the atlantic side of Denmark because 3 fighters vs 1 damaged battleship and a cruiser (2 subs there but the UK planes cant hit them) could easily be taken out and lost all 3 transports and ruined Sealion. Anyways, the ground forces moved into Paris and left Normandy alone for round 2. Also, I invaded Yugoslavia with the Infantry from Southern Germany and any tanks that couldn’t reach Paris this round (was 3 of them and 1 artillery).
UK countered with 9 infantry in London and did the Taranto raid on Italy, though they lacked much teeth after that and just kind of hung out in the med with the French ships to cancel Italy’s NO.
G2 I landed a successful Sealion with 3 transports, using something like 3 infantry and 3 artillery. I lost 3 infantry, 2 artillery and 2 more fighters. We decided to then do the alternate capital for the UK and Germany just went up 6 IPCs with no IPC spoils. This is where I saw an opportunity to do the Neutral crush. UK had no transports on the board except for from the med which now retreated to the Red Sea and the horn of Africa, Russia and the USA were not in the game yet and can’t capture neutrals while still being Neutral. So I decided to set up for Turkey and Spain, while Sweden would come in time since it was safe from Capture, I also noticed if I played it right I could get units into Iraq on G4 and hit Persia/Saudi Arabia if necessary with the extra infantry. Units from Yugoslavia moved into Bulgaria to be ready for Turkey while Italy didn’t make a move yet for Egypt they remained in the Eastern Med for support from their 1 remaining transport. All of the Paris units would take Normandy then G3 would do Spain.
Fast forward to G5 or 6 (can’t remember now that I am on the computer), Germany had a small factory in Yugo for the Russia push (never got around to doing the Afrika Korps NO) but started to struggle a little with units on the Russian front. I still think Russia would start losing ground but they had Leningrad stocked up really well. I do know that I was 1 turn from taking the Stalingrad factory, thanks to an Italian factory in Turkey (yeah they took it when I meant for them to soften Turkey up for Germany). USA landed in Portugal and Morocco. most of the german subs have retreated due to USA weilding 5 destroyers in the Atlantic with a couple bombers for support. Interestingly enough, the UK’s carrier lived long enough to regroup with the South America cruiser and retreated to the US coastline, then grouped up with a token UK fleet built from Quebec. They should be now getting back into the fight here soon enough. Italy did so well against Turkey that when it came time for Egypt, they fell flat on their face. only making 22 with not a single NO (french destroyer still hanging out at Gibraltar after fending off 3 german subs) has been difficult to spend any money on a fleet outside of a sub or two to eventually clear out the med.
All in all? I hit so many neutrals and early enough that I made my money back, the downside is that I have a very very long coastline to now defend from the awakened giant. And every unit I build in Normany, France or London is one less unit vs Russia on the shrinking German stacks of Infantry and Tanks. I utilized my airforce so much that it now only consists of 1 bomber, 3 Tacs (but one is in London for helping take out ships with the subs) and 1 fighter. Overall I am optomistic about winning once Stalingrad falls and I rebuild a stack in Germany to push back, but I may have to let the Allies take Spain or UK just so I am spending money on one less place.
In short, does the strategy work? I would say yes under the condition you take out all of the UK transports, still have a decent Air Force and you get a good stack ready to march into Turkey and Spain. Sweden was easier with 3 transports but I also had to use Infantry gained from Finland that were already earmarked for the Baltic campaign. I think when we quit, Germany was making 76 a turn with 2 NOs and Italy with 22 a turn, UK with 22 or so and Russia at 24. everyone is so worried about the allies picking up a handful of free infantry when they really dont have the infrastructure to pick them up, atleast not for 2-3 turns if not more, in which Germany can make 7 IPCS extra a turn, (+1 for Portugal if you get there, +2 for Iraq and +2 more for Saudi).
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That Sealion had a 45% chance of victory if you put in tacs as bombers, and 58% if you have the BB and CC bombard. The fact that unpaired tacs reduce to 3 make the odds about 50%. And even if you do take it, the US will not have a hard time retaking it(especially in Global where the Major fatcory becomes a minor)
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didnt read them akk but the us cant attack neutrals until in the war, so they can not attack spain and the british have no transports in range if you use your subs and planes wisley. And I find if you build a german aircraft carrier t1 germany you really suppress the british, finish the french and then quickly prepare for the red front. the us make to much money that cant be hurt to waist much time.
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Ah man, you were playing with the alternate capital rule for the British. It’d be a much different game with the Brits KO’d out of the war for that entire time (plus that one turn with UK’s money!). Glad to hear the Neutral attacks worked out. Do you still hold London in your game?
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We kind of decided to play the alternate capital rule at the last minute when Sealion was successful. In the end though I think it made the game play very fairly, otherwise there would just be USA and Russia building (for a Europe only game). We quit right as the US was landing in portugal and the Brits were gearing up to move back to their homeland so we didn’t get a chance to fight for London but it would have been a tough decision. I see it if they spend the money to bulk up London (already built the Major IC back by then), the Russian front starts to hurt and what is stopping the allies from just landing elsewhere? Great game though, I recommend you try the alternate capital house rule if the opportunity arises.
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We kind of decided to play the alternate capital rule at the last minute when Sealion was successful. In the end though I think it made the game play very fairly, otherwise there would just be USA and Russia building (for a Europe only game). We quit right as the US was landing in portugal and the Brits were gearing up to move back to their homeland so we didn’t get a chance to fight for London but it would have been a tough decision. I see it if they spend the money to bulk up London (already built the Major IC back by then), the Russian front starts to hurt and what is stopping the allies from just landing elsewhere? Great game though, I recommend you try the alternate capital house rule if the opportunity arises.
LOL we’re still having trouble getting to England in the first place over here in Axis and Allies land. Germany pretty much HAS to take UK on G2 for it to be viable, and if the UK player knows carrier rules he can always shoot down the TRNS fleet in SZ 113, or at least block the invasion route with a loaded CV in SZ 112.
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We kind of decided to play the alternate capital rule at the last minute when Sealion was successful. In the end though I think it made the game play very fairly, otherwise there would just be USA and Russia building (for a Europe only game). We quit right as the US was landing in portugal and the Brits were gearing up to move back to their homeland so we didn’t get a chance to fight for London but it would have been a tough decision. I see it if they spend the money to bulk up London (already built the Major IC back by then), the Russian front starts to hurt and what is stopping the allies from just landing elsewhere? Great game though, I recommend you try the alternate capital house rule if the opportunity arises.
LOL we’re still having trouble getting to England in the first place over here in Axis and Allies land. Germany pretty much HAS to take UK on G2 for it to be viable, and if the UK player knows carrier rules he can always shoot down the TRNS fleet in SZ 113, or at least block the invasion route with a loaded CV in SZ 112.
Can you look at my E40 game with Jim010 and see what I did wrong, since Germany is going to invade England on G3?
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If you’re going to attack Sweden/Spain/Turkey with Germany, why don’t you send Japanese transports to South America?
You’re going to want to leave the US out of the war as long as possible, so Japan taking Chile or Argentina on J2 should be possible. Move the Carolines fleet eastwards and they’re in range.
If you send all your initial transports eastwards, you’ll have Chile, Argentine on J3, maybe Brazil if you didn’t lose ground troops. Otherwise it’s J4. Get an Industrial Complex down there and you can send tanks into Mexico!
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We kind of decided to play the alternate capital rule at the last minute when Sealion was successful. In the end though I think it made the game play very fairly, otherwise there would just be USA and Russia building (for a Europe only game). We quit right as the US was landing in portugal and the Brits were gearing up to move back to their homeland so we didn’t get a chance to fight for London but it would have been a tough decision. I see it if they spend the money to bulk up London (already built the Major IC back by then), the Russian front starts to hurt and what is stopping the allies from just landing elsewhere? Great game though, I recommend you try the alternate capital house rule if the opportunity arises.
LOL we’re still having trouble getting to England in the first place over here in Axis and Allies land. Germany pretty much HAS to take UK on G2 for it to be viable, and if the UK player knows carrier rules he can always shoot down the TRNS fleet in SZ 113, or at least block the invasion route with a loaded CV in SZ 112.
Can you look at my E40 game with Jim010 and see what I did wrong, since Germany is going to invade England on G3?
DUDE, what were you SMOKING??? Why in hell on UK2 did you buy 3 tanks for S. Africa and a DD??? DIDN’T YOU SEE THE G2 8 TRANSPORT BUY??? Jeez!
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LOL OMG he had 8 transports and he SPLIT HIS FLEET INVADING THE S.U.??? What a schmiel! He had London IN THE BAG!!! (He still ALMOST took it on G3) More like, DOOM, what were YOU smoking???
Calvin, if you had built all inf UK2 he shouldn’t have even had a chance at attempting it. Next game remember to do it if the Germans are building all transports. You were just very lucky this time around.
Sealion is definitely more viable in AAE40 games since there’s no Japan J1 move to upset the USA applecart so early on in the game.
We didn’t even get to see the US response to Sealion; from your builds there wasn’t even anything in place to liberate England yet by US2-3.
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If the rules came out the same (I haven’t read through everything yet), just because one side invades a true neutral, it doesn’t mean all of the sudden ALL the other neutrals activate against you.
- They all become pro-other side
- They still need to be activated by having a land unit go into EACH zone
- The other side collects NO money until they activate a territory
Originally, I thought it insane too to invade true neutrals - but, it’s not as bad as originally thought - especially if Germany can get the big three with units BEFORE they have to deal with the Soviets.
IMHO
MM
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LOL OMG he had 8 transports and he SPLIT HIS FLEET INVADING THE S.U.??? What a schmiel! He had London IN THE BAG!!! (He still ALMOST took it on G3) More like, DOOM, what were YOU smoking???
Calvin, if you had built all inf UK2 he shouldn’t have even had a chance at attempting it. Next game remember to do it if the Germans are building all transports. You were just very lucky this time around.
Sealion is definitely more viable in AAE40 games since there’s no Japan J1 move to upset the USA applecart so early on in the game.
We didn’t even get to see the US response to Sealion; from your builds there wasn’t even anything in place to liberate England yet by US2-3.
I checked with a sim and even if I built all inf and put all possible planes there, he still has an 80% chance. Thus, I decided to dpend money on things that won’t get destroyed
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Still, you can’t just hand him England on a platter. You HAVE to make him FIGHT for it! (This is one thing I hate as the Axis, you MUST rely on the dice to win the game to a large extent.) Even if you did lose England, you need to have him take it with 1 tank vs. 5 tanks 2 inf so the US has a shot at liberating it next turn!
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BUMP
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A Neutral Crush for either Axis or Allies is going to be an endgame tactic. Its too risky in the first 6 rounds or so. However, late in the game, since Turkey and Spain are so valuable stategically, someone will attack them, absorb the hits in order to seal the fate of the other side with the force that will be canopened for them through this move.
In other words the team with the upperhand can seal the deal with this move if done correctly and at the right time.
So what if the other neutrals now go to the other side…by definition they still have to go ACTIVATE them and bring them into the action…that wastes a lot of time and rounds that one doesn’t have in the endgame.
These are my thoughts anyway. :-)
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This sounds like a fascinating strategy. So far, I’ve played 2 games of Europe 40 and 1 of Global 40 (actually still in progress) and both sides steered clear of the strict neutrals because of turning all the others against you. We had the thinking that an Axis attack on a strict neutral was almost like handing the Allies many more IPCs and a bunch of extra infantry. I never thought about the time it would take for any of the Allies to go and get them. In some cases it would help them but most would be almost useless.
One question, and please excuse my ignorance here, but it sounds like you can attack Turkey from Europe in a simple land movement and not have to use transports. I know that a little part of Turkey is actually on Europe next to Greece and that ALL of Turkey is considered one territory but it still seems to me like you would need transports to get land units across the straights. I take it they are treating Turkey and the Turkish straights the same as Panama and the Panama Canal. Is this right?
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Never mind my question about Turkey in my previous post. I found my answer in another thread. Thanks anyway.
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Ok, everyone, I tried out this strategy and ultimately conceded that game. Here’s the thread if you’re interested:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20754.0
If you’re going to try this out, make sure Japan tries SOMETHING in S. America J3 to tie up the US for at least a few rounds. US had like $92 for most of the game, and the Axis dropping the ball in the Atlantic/Med made it WAY too easy for the US to whup up in Europe. Also, I played Italy like a demented retard, as the Italian BB had some awesome rolling killing TWO separate 95%+ UK attacks, and I also gave up a FREE IC in Egypt TWICE. Don’t let the True Neutrals distract Italy, especially if you’re lucky enough to have your BB survive UK1! Take Egypt and build/seize that IC on it!
Also, don’t throw away the German airforce in the Med trying to help the Italians, build a minor IC in Yugo and build subs or your fleet moved in from Gibraltar; I keep telling myself that every game, and every game I end up with just a few planes on the carrier by G3-4.
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