Is this the worse game?

[Themistokles]

@LT04:

I think that this has the most potential to have “the perfect balance”  of all of the A&A games.

To me D-Day and BOTB feel like the computer/consul games where your mission is to “survive for 30 minutes until reinforcements arrive.”  Europe, Pacific and the world versions simply can’t be balanced because of geography and have to compensate with units and production abilities.

After a few rounds GC could have an even 1:1 unit and island ratio.  It’s the closest to a perfect mirrored chess board that I think we could ever get with an A&A game.  Because of that it shouldn’t matter what side you play.

On another note I have recommended to players of the mainstream A&A games that were struggling with Japan or the US to play GC.  It really improved their game being forced to work with transports.

Long story short as an owner of A&A mini’s, classic, revised, pacific, Europe, BOTB and D-Day I prefer GC.

LT

In my opinion LT04 is totally right.

It is a very balanced game and makes a lot of fun. I like particularly the predominance of seaunits because naval warfare got a raw deal in the other games.

[Axisplaya]

About that “perfect balance” potential thing…

I have played a lot of GC games, and the more i play, the more i find out that the game really is not that well balanced.
If you don’t play with the optional tokens(banzai, coast watchers etc…), the japanese have a clear edge.
What is that edge ? Military ? Nope, 2 more cruisers for less planes is not an edge. They start with more islands ? Nope, at the end of the 1st turn, Americans will have taken control of as many islands as japanese, so they will not get less IPC.

The edge is that second double airfield island they have from the beginning and that americans have to attack sooner or later if they don’t want to loose. In fact, if Americans do not bring 3 supplys and troops on that island on the 2nd turn, they loose their only chance to build an airfield there because otherwise japanese will do that on turn 3(they build the 1st airfield there on turn 1). Then, for the rest of the game, they will have to bring more troops on that island every turn  just to be sure the japanese won’t score a victory point with the airfield american builted earlier. Japanese will constantly outnumber american on that island, and will have more shoots with artillery at the american fleet.
If the US doesn’t do that on turn 2, then all they have are desperate moves to try to even the score on turn 3, 4 or 5.

When we add the tokens, the game is completely different, and any side can win. The Good logistic combined with Amphibious assault and eventually command decision, if well used, may allow the US to wipe that 2 airfield japanese island, while the japanese can combine Banzai, quiqdrop and command decision to take control of any american island(for at least one turn).

If anyone knows a strat for US without the optional tokens to have a good game, i will be glad to learn from it.

[frimmel]

Is the US player using any rapid deployment to zone I on turn 1? Is Japan using any rapid deploy on turn 1?

My experience is that a first turn airfield on NG is a mistake for Japan that allows the US to call the tune. But maybe I haven’t played enough.

[Variable]

@frimmel:

But maybe I haven’t played enough.

I doubt that… :-D

[frimmel]

@Variable:

@frimmel:

But maybe I haven’t played enough.

I doubt that… :-D

So you’d agree that J building an airfield on NG on turn 1 isn’t some sort of ‘game over’ move from Japan?

[Variable]

It’s not game over at all. An extra JA airbase is an extra US target!

[Axisplaya]

I don’t know what you mean with “rapid deployment” Frimmel.  If you mean the use of supply to gain one or more zone when you deploy, this happens after the combat sequence, so the japs have absolutely nothing to fear on J1. Us player can bring all he wants on New Georgia on J1, there is no way he will beat the Japanese.
If, on J2, the us player brings absolutely all the troops he can and all his fleet on zone I and unload on New Georgia, then the japs will do about the same AND they will bring a supply, just in case the US fleet choose to shoot at the airfield and succeed….

So, i don’t see at all why it would be bad to build an airfield on J1 on New Georgia for the japs, and another one on J3 if the US player don’t do it on J2.

That said, I just want to say that i never said that “a sort of game over move” exists with that game. It is not broken at all. I just talked about an edge that the Japanese seem to have because of 2 airfields in New Georgia. I understand that it is necessary. Otherwise, with only 4 airfields on each side, the players would just just sit in their zone and wait, nobody would attack with the disadvantage of fighting in ennemy zone (artillery).
In my games, i just have not found a way to have a good game with the us against a competent oponent.
When i win with the us, it is because of japanese blunder or because i have been lucky.

[frimmel]

@Axisplaya:

I don’t know what you mean with “rapid deployment” Frimmel.  If you mean the use of supply to gain one or more zone when you deploy, this happens after the combat sequence, so the japs have absolutely nothing to fear on J1. Us player can bring all he wants on New Georgia on J1, there is no way he will beat the Japanese.

That is what I mean by rapid deployment. Is the US answering a turn one airfield on NG with warships (cruisers or battleships) into zone I during turn 1 reinforcement? Especially if Japan has left all of their reinforcement on the base card?

I certainly agree that a move  on NG for the US turn 1 is sub-optimal but in terms of advantage for J to do so in the long term I don’t see it.

[Axisplaya]

In a typical game, the japanese will certainly not leave all their reinforcement on the base card. They will mix their reinforcement, some on the base card, and some on zone B and during turn 2,  Japanese will have all his fleet on zone F(unless, of course, us player who has the initiative on turn 2 tries to enter zoneG  :roll:) and about all his land units on NG.

Remember, i never said building an airfield on NG on J1 was an absolute killer move for the Japanese. I’m just saying that Japanese have an easier game.

For exemple, on that turn 2 strat that you propose , Japanese will have 3 “free” shots at the US fleet (artillery on NG)on the sea attack phase, they will have 2 more shot because of their fleet advantage ( 2 more cruisers) on the land attack phase, and on top of that, they will play their planes after the us player (they already have an AA gun on NG who will shot at us planes on NG if the US player wants to suicide some planes), so that’s more japanese planes on the land attack if us player doesn’t make anything special with his planes. Us player if he has spent heavily on transports infantry and supplies to deploy, will have a few more land units, but the 2 japanese cruisers and the remaining japanese planes will lower us player odds for the land attack phase. If Japanese is very unlucky with the dices, he will, once in a while, loose control of NG for one turn(4 important IPC), but will still score a victory point for the airfield.

That turn 2 us strat still is the one that gives me the best chances when i play us, but i find it much harder to win with the us than with the japanese.

So, as you might have guessed by now  :-D, i win a lot more games with the japanese than i do with the us.
I don’t know…If i happen to be alone with these results, i will conclude i’m doing something wrong, or just not seeing something important (as well as the 4 other people i use to play GC with). In that case, i will be happy to learn.

[Axisplaya]

@frimmel:

My experience is that a first turn airfield on NG is a mistake for Japan that allows the US to call the tune.

In this article : http://www.axisandallies.org/node/325

No 11 says this : " It’s easy to build an airfield near your home base and harder to build them farther away. Try building your first airfield on the furthest safe island from your home base card. Your opponent won’t make it to Guadalcanal or Bougainville for a few turns so you have some time to build their. On the other hand New Georgia, Santa Isabel, and Choiseul will quickly become hostile environments. If you can safely transport supplies to one of those islands early, it should give you and advantage later."

So, sorry to come again with that, but what should i believe ?

Could you please, Frimmel, explain to me in a little more detailed way how the US will “call the tune” ?

If needed, i can provide the exact japanese moves so you have a clear position to work on.

[frimmel]

You should believe your own experience. Didn’t you already have the last word on this?

[Stickman]

My brother just picked this up for me at a thrift store for $2.00

I’m not sure how it will fair against Global, lol but for $2.00 Why not?

[A Former User]

I don’t like D-Day that much… But you guys should check out some of the express games by reloader-1 and Spartan Soldier; They’re pretty cool. Spartan is going to be making a Winter War one as well!

[GoSanchez6]

I know Larry has tried to branch out but these battle games just don’t measure up to the Global/Europe/Pacific. I have this game and I get get my friends to play it. They would rather play the global games. We did play D-day twice and that was pretty much it.

[kurt3892]

I was at a friends house playing this game ftf for my once and only time.  He got this box where the dice were rolled in and his japs rolled three hits and I couldn’t take Guadalcanal on round 1.  So I said eh let’s just break out the anniversary edition.

[GoSanchez6]

Great story Kurt I am sure there were a lot of the same ones on this game.
DAVE]

[frimmel]

@kurt3892:

I was at a friends house playing this game ftf for my once and only time.  He got this box where the dice were rolled in and his japs rolled three hits and I couldn’t take Guadalcanal on round 1.  So I said eh let’s just break out the anniversary edition.

:?

So you think this is the worst game because you couldn’t properly deduce the amount of material required to remove three infantry from Guadalcanal if your opponent got a lucky roll? And what were you doing with all of that stuff on the base island?

And you know that you don’t have to remove all of the enemies from the island in order to ‘take’ it?

Try actually learning the rules first and getting your head out of your backside before coming about saying a game is the ‘worse’ (sic.) Even jokingly.

:x

Guadalcanal Rulebook.

[Axisplaya]

Agree with Frimmel. Not being able to take Guadalcanal on Round 1….lol…I have never seen that happen. Once in a while , when you have been extremely unlucky, you may fail to take malaita on round 1, because you usually like to send the minimum amount of troops, but failing to take guadalcanal…lol, you have 5 bombers on your base card that have nowhere useful to go except guadalcanal and malaita on Round 1…

[kurt3892]

I would actually rather play Guadalcanal than D-day.

[GoSanchez6]

Of all his games I think this is the worst. I am not saying the game is awful. My expectations have gotten higher and higher as these games keep going. This one just  let me down.