Japanese Strategies

[Gravy]

gwlachmai, u must be playing a different game than me then because a good Japanese player should win 80% of the time with the J1 attack, J2 hit philipines, and destroy British Navy leaving two subs on India convoy…bleed India slowly to its death.

With just a minor IC in Kwangtung or FIC, 3 tanks a turn will allow the Japanese player to outproduce the allies in the Pacific, using the Philipines as its main base, the range is deadly.

Sure the allies can hit the Islands here and there  and put subs in convoys but its easily taken back with a good Jap player.

[Gwlachmai]

I must be. Granted the J1 attack is tougher to deal with then a J2 or J3, but, I’m willing to be patient and see how the global game impacts the pretty much standard J1 assault. Otherwise in my gaming circle the Allies have racked up a decent number of wins. In the forum games, I’m playing two allied games, but, both are still pretty early so we’ll see how those go.

Not allowing IC’s to be built is kind of extreme to me, and to say that a consensus was reached in the other thread is misleading at best.

[Praetorian]

@The:

And i saw that thread too, and the only reason you guys came to “a conclusion” that Japan shouldn’t be able to build an IC in Asia is b/c many of us saw the thread and though it was such a stupid idea that they didn’t bother responding.

Really?  'cause the best example that was given to suggest that the IC wasn’t unbalanced in the thread was “well, its always been done.”  Feel free to add something useful to that thread.

But y’know, hey, I love it when my idle musings are called dumb.  Happy weekend to you too.

[Praetorian]

@The:

Yes, I like building 3 transports as well as Japan R1. But I believe that the best way to kill the allies is a J1 attack on the 4 chinese territories, Shan State, French Indo-china, Kwangtung, Phillipines, and Celebes. I take all of these on round 1 and then take all of the DEI R@. This skyrockets Japanese income to 41 on turn 2 and like over 60 turn 3. I then steadily make my way through China and into India with a Malayan factory (useful for both an Indian and an ANZAC invasion). Thoughts?

A strong J1 does not need to involve attacking the US1.  Waiting to attack the US on J2 or J3 keeps their economy hobbled while the Japanese player continues to see their economy steadily increase.  By J3 they can be in a good spot looming down on India and building a solid defense against the US.

The problem with an all-out attack against all the Allies is that it quickly overextends the Japanese.  Playing as India, I’m a happy many when the Japanese player gets hyper aggressive as Fire Knight suggests… I can fortify India enough to make it impossible to take Calcutta until J4+ - which gives the US a long time to build up.  This also means that the aircraft the Japanese want to use to ensure victory in India will need to be diverted (at least in part) to the E. pacific to defend against the US.  Worse, it gives the US the time and economy to reinforce Australia.  2 extra turns of 50+ IPC is a big deal - even if Japan is neck-and-neck simply because the US only needs to bring their might to bear in one (maybe 2) places while the Japanese, tied down in Asia, is going to need to have forces in 4 spots (India, S Pacific, E Pacific and usually one other place - often SW Pacific or C Pacific).

So far, I’m not sold that an all-out attack against all 3 Allies is the best idea.

[Praetorian]

@Gravy:

gwlachmai, u must be playing a different game than me then because a good Japanese player should win 80% of the time with the J1 attack, J2 hit philipines, and destroy British Navy leaving two subs on India convoy…bleed India slowly to its death.

With just a minor IC in Kwangtung or FIC, 3 tanks a turn will allow the Japanese player to outproduce the allies in the Pacific, using the Philipines as its main base, the range is deadly.

Sure the allies can hit the Islands here and there  and put subs in convoys but its easily taken back with a good Jap player.

Thats pretty much my conclusion as well.  If you have two equally good players, Japan, I think has a strong advantage.  After 6+ plays I’m having trouble figuring out how to really stop a good Japanese player.  I can get lucky if the Japanese overextend themselves in the first round or two, but it relies heavily on some really good rolls by the Allies to stay in the game.  If the rolls go average, Japan pretty much has the game wrapped up as long as they dont do something monumentally stupid.

[katfishkris]

i am beginning to think that the way to beat jap is with subs.  lots of em.  3each turn with the US, and if anzac/uk can spare the 6ipc, have them build some too.  start blockading jap convoys.  just use 1 sub in each sz.  jap will have to buy so many dd’s to kill off the subs, it will slowly bleed them to death.  that is unless they go full bore for india.

[Gravy]

I’ve tried alot of different strats as the allies and I’m 0-5 against my friends J1 attack, J2 Philip scheme.  The subs don’t work because 1. they are way too easy to take out and 2. subs leave your transports vulnerable.  Plus he will now come right at me in Queensland, where I like to stage.

I tried being very patient and built up the US and Ausies in Australia, made it close when I took out the majority of his navy but he had so much money that he was buying 2 battleships a round.  By the time the US is ready to hit him again, he’s ready for me and I was never able to get near the DEI.

I also tried sending all my fighters to India, but it just takes too long for the US to build carriers and fighters and it leaves Hawaii vulnerable the first few turns. When he saw my fighters leave for Australia, he came hard at Hawaii.

What is the most frustrating is watching his 2 subs station on India’s convoy and take 3 IPC’s/turn.  Nothing I can do but watch.  If I build ships, he wipes them out with help from hte 4 bombers. I have been close a few games, but you need good rolls.  Honeslty, I’m really thinking of going to the 12 sided dice from the Bulge game to change the odds a bit…discuss this in another thread.

[Praetorian]

@katfishkris:

i am beginning to think that the way to beat jap is with subs.  lots of em.  3each turn with the US, and if anzac/uk can spare the 6ipc, have them build some too.  start blockading jap convoys.  just use 1 sub in each sz.  jap will have to buy so many dd’s to kill off the subs, it will slowly bleed them to death.  that is unless they go full bore for india.

What about US sub spam, stage in Hawaii, and if the Japanese player isn’t looking, rush them into the waters around Japan?  A force of 5+ subs in Japanese waters will do a lot of IC damage.  If its a concentration od just subs, the Japanese player may have a devil of a time dislodging them.  Its not going to win the war, but it might help swing the balance or at least force the Japanese into a defensive stance.

[katfishkris]

cant keep all the subs in one sz.  jap will send 1 dd and lots of planes and wipe out all subs in 1 attack.  have to keep all subs spread out, force jap to spread out her dd’s.

[Praetorian]

@katfishkris:

cant keep all the subs in one sz.  jap will send 1 dd and lots of planes and wipe out all subs in 1 attack.   have to keep all subs spread out, force jap to spread out her dd’s.

Not at all.  If Japan sends just one or two DDs and a bunch of planes the subs have a good chance to survive.  Remember, the subs allocated their hits against the DDs, not against the fighters.  So under most normal circumstances the Japanese would only get one round of shooting.  The subs would survive, especially if you have more than 5 of them sitting off the coast of Japan.

To really get the subs the Japanese player would have to allocate either a ridiculous amoutn of aircraft to ensure they can kill5+ units in the first round (thats a lot of aircraft) or allocate a lot of other forces (BBs, CAs).  Even then, the efficiency by which the subs do their thing would force the Japanese to allocate considerable forces to defend the homeland - forces that the Japanese player would probably like to use elsewhere.

[Hobbes]

@Praetorian:

@katfishkris:

cant keep all the subs in one sz.  jap will send 1 dd and lots of planes and wipe out all subs in 1 attack.   have to keep all subs spread out, force jap to spread out her dd’s.

Not at all.  If Japan sends just one or two DDs and a bunch of planes the subs have a good chance to survive.  Remember, the subs allocated their hits against the DDs, not against the fighters.  So under most normal circumstances the Japanese would only get one round of shooting.  The subs would survive, especially if you have more than 5 of them sitting off the coast of Japan.

To really get the subs the Japanese player would have to allocate either a ridiculous amoutn of aircraft to ensure they can kill5+ units in the first round (thats a lot of aircraft) or allocate a lot of other forces (BBs, CAs).  Even then, the efficiency by which the subs do their thing would force the Japanese to allocate considerable forces to defend the homeland - forces that the Japanese player would probably like to use elsewhere.

But it is better to force Japan to spread its DDs over several SZs so that more subs can attack them afterwards. It will increase J losses regarding cost of units.

[Praetorian]

@Hobbes:

But it is better to force Japan to spread its DDs over several SZs so that more subs can attack them afterwards. It will increase J losses regarding cost of units.

Oh, I am not suggesting spreading out SSs is a bad idea, but that concentrating the SSs also has its advantages - not the least of which is that you could potentially do a lot of IC damage off the coast of Japan.  I mean, thats 11 IC printed on the map right there.  The ability to target all that IC, even for a turn, is quite juicy.

[gredert]

WHat I aways do now is J1 build 2 ICs in Asia, preferably near the fighting. Then J2 build 3 tanks at each, and do this again J3. Now to go with all the men you have shipped from japan you have a formidable force that will quickly over run china, and by J4 or J5, India has fallen. This will be even better in Global I think as it will scare the shit out of Russia, having that many tanks possibly sitting behind them, may give Germany an edge if some start lining up on the border with mech infantry forcing russia to sit more in moscow and the east than on the western lines.

[Open Defiance]

Okay i got a question, What exactly are tasks forces? Oh, and should japan try to destroy china right away?

[Piazza2425]

From my understanding, if you declare war on UK/Anzac but not USA, USA cannot attack Japan, but they do get their wartime economy that turn.

So if you do the J1 attack, J2 Phillipines, aren’t you really letting the USA get 62 IPC, save their bomber, fighter, DD, and transport, moving them out of harms way to fight another day?

[Stoney229]

@Open:

Okay i got a question, What exactly are tasks forces?

Like marshalling card/circles from AAR.  When you have so many pieces (usually ships) on one space that they don’t fit well or they are cumbersome to move (if they are moving together), you put a task force marker there and put all the unit pieces in a designated task force location off the board.

@Piazza2425:

From my understanding, if you declare war on UK/Anzac but not USA, USA cannot attack Japan, but they do get their wartime economy that turn.

US only gets its wartime economy once it declares war.  US cannot declare war if UK/ANZ initiated DoW on Japan.  If Japan declares war on UK/ANZ unproved, then US can and should declare war on its turn - it gains wartime NO and can attack Japan.  What you may be thinking of is the fact that US does no convoy damage to Japan in the turn Japan declares war on only UK/ANZ, since the DoW doesn’t actually come until US’s turn.

[Piazza2425]

usa cannot declare war though no matter what.  they are only drawn into it.  There is a thread on here about the usa declaration of war and J1 attacks.

[Piazza2425]

Nevermind.  I read the faq and changed the declaration for the USA.  So why wait to take the phil’s on J2 instead of just taking it J1.  You give the USA time to move everything, giving it that much more firepower to assault japan.