SD 251 German Halftrack - Major Flaw with passengers

[Northern_Rommel]

This is a situation that needs to be addressed now before the
game expands and it becomes a big thorn. Namely I am talking
about the troop transport capacity of some vehicles.

I don’t know if anyone else noticed this, but the SdKfz251 can
only transport 1 lousy infantry unit. This is silly since each infantry
unit represents on average 4-6 soldiers according to what I read.
Plus these vehicle traditionally carried upto 12-16 soldiers.
Considering that a T-34 can carry a troop as well - then there is a
serious flaw here that will come back to bite the designers.

A better way to do this is allow most vehicles to carry one
infantry on board (as long as they dont use any special
tactic or move at high speed for the danger to those
riding on top). The larger tanks better suited to transporting
men (like the T-34) should be allowed to carry troop + team
or some small tactical/maneuver advantage. Its simple
rules like this that make a game tactically viable.

Smaller versions of the Half-track existed, and if introduced
should be allowed to carry one infantry or pull one gun and crew
OR the errata should be issued now to allow the SdKfz251
to carry at minimum 2+1 infantry - with only one of those
units being allowed to fire out of this vehicle.

Trucks when introduced at some future point would then have
some realistic tactical usage if they carried from 2 to 5 troops.
What will happen when you introduce Bren Carriers or the
small vehicles that were crew type carriers?

Another point that another player brought up to me is what
happens when infantry try to dismount but they can’t due
to the stacking limit in the hex they are in?

Being a game designer I understand the balance of playability
and reality - but guys this sucks. I can also see how in the
mechanics of this game right now the use of tanks over troops
is going to be a problem – which will kill the balance.
The power gamers will rule the field with armor and ruin
general play. Maybe changing the game so that built armies
of 200 pts must reflect traditional platoon organizations
would be smart. Even limiting to min 25% points spent on
infantry units.

If the authors are listening I hope they make the change soon
and put the errata up to support it. Otherwise the 251 is simply
not worth the point cost.

Anyone else noticing this - please add your two cents so the
designers get the message.

[Nomad]

Whoa, dude, it’s only a simple little game of toy soldiers!

Seriously, I think you’re loading the game with more detail than it wants or needs.

Yes, you can see an rifleman figure as representing one squad or section (8-10 men at full strength, which they usually were not) but by the same light, there’s nothing to say that one Hanomag model represents one SdKfz 251 or one jeep model one actual jeep - it’s the tactical effect that matters.

The SdKfz 251 is expensive in points terms because the troops can fight from it, unlike a jeep, and maybe also because they were expensive and comparatively rare vehicles. The Wehrmacht never had enough to equip more than a fraction of their PanzerGrenadiers, while the allied armies were awash with jeeps.

Some of the Special Abilities within the game make sense - a T34 can carry infantry, well, the Red Army did a lot of that - some don’t - why should a late model Sherman have the same ability? It wasn’t a tactic the US Army used to any extent, so far as I’m aware. Why does the M3 Lee get a fire and fade option? but then this isn’t a detailed combat sim such as Command Decision or Spearhead (both of which I play and enjoy).

And why get into TO&E’s in a collectable game? Frankly I’m delighted that AH have not tried to say ‘you can only use Panzer II’s in platoons of five’ or whatever to try to boost sales of, er, booster packs.

The game is simple, quick and fun. There are other games to represent ‘higher level’ functions. And if this game gets a few of the younger generation of gamers to do something which does not involve orcs, trolls and men in pointy hats for a while, then as far as I’m concerned it’s a winner.

[Northern_Rommel]

Whoa, dude, it’s only a simple little game of toy soldiers!
Seriously, I think you’re loading the game with more detail than it wants > or needs.

Perhaps. But if some mechanics are not addressed early on then it
messes up the game down the road.

The SdKfz 251 is expensive in points terms because the troops can fight
from it, unlike a jeep, and maybe also because they were
expensive and comparatively rare vehicles. The Wehrmacht never had
enough to equip more than a fraction of their PanzerGrenadiers, while
the allied armies were awash with jeeps.

It was not that rare.

Some of the Special Abilities within the game make sense - a T34 can
carry infantry, well, the Red Army did a lot of that - some don’t - why
should a late model Sherman have the same ability? It wasn’t a tactic
the US Army used to any extent, so far as I’m aware.
Why does the M3 Lee get a fire and fade option? but then this isn’t a
detailed combat sim such as Command Decision or Spearhead (both of
which I play and enjoy).

It was done. The Sherman was a fire prone vehicle and the speed
at which it moved to avoid the German counterpart made doing
so a risk.

if this game gets a few of the younger generation of gamers to do
something which does not involve orcs, trolls and men in pointy hats
for a while, then as far as I’m concerned it’s a winner.

Well I agree the game should stay simple – the addition of simple
things can be used to create greater levels of tactical and strategic
thinking. Which few kids seem to get exposure to these days
from games more concerned with marketing then quality.
Chess is simple in mechanics too - and look how well that does.

[fieldmarshal]

Perhaps. But if some mechanics are not addressed early on then it
messes up the game down the road.

A simple way to address this is to have your own ‘house’ rules.

EXAMPLE OF HOUSE RULES CHANGES

My group has already tossed the maps that came with the starter set and we use terrain instead. One Hex = 2 inches.

Example:

A Vehicle that has a movement of 5 moves 10 inches.

Works out great and we can use lots of buildings, trees, hills, etc. to make the game more interesting.

RS

[Guest]

Hi, just to give some background I have played Panzer blitz and ASL. I have enjoyed them both for the type of games we they are. I do not want A&A miniatures to be a trivial game “just an itroductory game for new gamers”. I would like to see the game rules expand and update with each new release. I think if you are introduced to our fine haobby through this game you would welcome more compexity as the game evoles.