Taking Karelia 1st turn

[Desert-fox 0]

allright don’t say I’m crazy……until u’ve finished reading make sure to read the !WHOLE! article before criticizing!

BEST CASE SCENARIO

Russia has 12 infantry, a fighter, and a tank(depends on the player) in Karelia.

IPC SPENDING: 4 tanks, 1 fighter
we’ll assume that it’s a very passive player, and that they’ve not attacked accept the baltic fleet. allright now here’s where germany makes there move. empty finland, ukraine, eastern europe into Karelia. next move 2 tanks and 1 fighter from germany, 1 tank from southern europe, and one fighter from western europe. you now have a total of:

GERMANY:
INFANTRY-9
TANKS-7
FIGHTERS-5

RUSSIA:
INFANTRY-12
TANKS-1
FIGHTER-1

with this tactic you will use infantry as a shield for the sixteen units that will be attacking at 3. when russia attacks they will not hit your fighters or tanks they will hit all infantry. so into the second or third role your fighters/tanks have been untouched, while they’re units are sloughtered. by the end of the battle you’ve lost 7 or 8 infantry. while the enemy has been completely sloughtered. leaving you 9 units defending at 2 against enemy infantry assaults.

NON-combat:
take all fighters to ukraine to defend open territories.

Worst Case Scenario:
one time a friend knew my plan… he placed 17 infantry on Karelia. After executing the plan shown above, all 17 russian units lay dead, while only 2 germany infantry units have been lost. :evil:

[lightning wolf]

I 100% agree… when you’re playing against even a semi-aggressive this tactic works well. but I wouldn’t use it unless you’re very very aggressive! 8)

[DarthMaximus]

Questions:

Where is the rest of Russia’s inf and arm? Russia can have 20 inf on the German front at the end of rd 1, and they can have 22 inf they brought the 2 inf from Eve to Mos. Russia can counter with minimum 8 inf, 3 arm (1 arm was from the East) and 1 ftr. They wipe out the Germans and now Germany has no armor, UK has a mighty navy with a BB and has landed in Fin, or perhaps taken WE on Rd 1 with a BB shot, 2 inf, 1 arm 2 ftrs, and a bom.

If Russia can’t counter and retake Kar, then sure go for it. But if they can then look out cause you are going to lose all your arm and offensive punch.

However, if you want to be real sneaky land 2 Japan ftrs on Kar on J1, that’ll really thwart a Russian counter and perhaps catch them by surprise.

Frankly, this is bad defense by Russia. Why the heck would they only have 12 inf, 1 arm and 1 ftr in Kar? Bad bad bad tactics.

[Desert Foxx]

I agree with Darth, if the Russian are holding Karelia with only 12 inf, then there’s 2 possibilities:

1. The Russians have punch in Moscow to counter and destroy ALL of Germany’s armor and the Brits adn Americans will be having a field day.

2. The Russian player is inept, and any strategy will defeat such a player.

[SelfBiasResistor]

I would personally never go for Karelia on G1. It leaves you too open in W. Europe against the UK and US.

[Desert Foxx]

Not only are you going to lose W Europe to the Anglos, but holding or even taking Afrika will be improbable, leaving the Brits enough cash/resources to help fend off Japan

[221B Baker Street]

I would only do this if I was more interested in a different type of game than actually winning as Germany. Better axis strategies can be found by searching this site.

Taking Karelia in G1 should only be used in order set up an attack on Moscow on G2, otherwise its a bad idea. Even if Russia were to fall on G2 which is doubtful considering that Germany might not even take Karelia, the axis could still lose the game since UK/US should be having a field day in W. Europe and Africa by G3. But it would make for a different game and could work if the Allies do not respond to the fall of Russia well (maybe they would sue for peace 8) )

[Desert-fox 0]

I would agree with DarthMaximus that the Russans can mount a major counterattack and will mow down much if not all of your forces there. Some of the main reasons are to take Russa’s attention from taking your Ukrain and Eastern Europe territorys. You haft to admit that Karelia touches an awful lot of territories. It will also allow to halt Russan production on your front line. That idea of landing Jappanese fighters on Karelia was pretty good. I had never thought of that. 8)

[DarthMaximus]

That idea of landing Jappanese fighters on Karelia was pretty good. I had never thought of that.

Yeah, and if your opponent hasn’t see it either, it could be just the thing you need to get a real advantage.

I remember the first time I heard it and was like “I got to try that!”, but rarely is their an opportunity to take Kar on rd 1 with sufficient forces to even consider bring over 2 Japanese ftrs. I think only 2 can reach.

It also works on later assualts on Kar, where you can get even more J ftrs to Kar, but just be careful and don’t waste them trying to hold it if you know you can’t.

[haxorboy]

I love me some offensive killing with Germany, but taking the big K on G1 just usually puts you in a bad spot. Mind you it depends upon who you are playing, but the Russian/Allied counter can really hurt ya.

[madscientist]

If you’re playing against an inexperienced player you can sometimes invade Karelia on the first turn without even using your planes if they leave too many units in Cacausus or Russia. This usually happens to newbies, and they learn to stack Karelia.

[Desert Foxx]

If you’re playing an inexperienced player, you can do just about anything and still pull off a victory. The only reason to take Karelia from them, is to teach them a lesson

[haxorboy]

I’ll never forget that first time I got owned in 3 turns…you understand playing Russia is all about some waiting…and more waiting…and troop buying…

[Desert-fox 0]

:D I really appreciate everybody’s impute on my article and I intend to answer all you guys. I may not be able to for a week or so because I’m in the middle of a move, and it’s taking most of my time and energy. I just don’t want to seem rude by leaving you all hanging. So, I give my word as a dedicated A&A player I will write you all back as soon as possible.

Sincerely,

Desert-fox

[El Jefe]

I believe a strafe on KAR or UKR(depending on opponent’s set up is best.)
Include a noncombat movement to strengthen EEU.
Include a build of mostly INF for the first two turns to have fodder for the coming battle.

The GER air and sea power must clear the sea zones of UK forces on the first turn. This precludes a take KAR first turn move.

[Guest]

I would say never strafe Karelia. In a RR game the Russians should have 18-19inf 3arm and 1-2 ftrs which should make any strafe uneffective as it would require the Germans to largely ignore the Uk fleet while enduring AA gun shots which depending on how effective/ineffective they are would decide if the strafe is even remotely effective. If you have such limited experience in playing the game that you need to play Yahtzee on G1 then I’d say you are better of getting waxed because you will most certainly learn many lessons in the process.

As for non RR games with a +21 bid…if the bid is mostly in Europe then a counterattack on Karelia may not be such a bad idea depending on how well placed your bid is. However, most of the times it is not, and again by the time you learn when it is you won’t need to so there it is.

[Desert-fox 0]

Well, it all depends on your opinion ,but sooner or latter Russia will try to threaten Berlin by taking EEU. Now, by threatening Karelia you can put Russia in defense mode. Even if it goes bad for you in Karelia it stalls Russia a turn and Germany can out produce Russia hands down on infantry production on round 2. You do need to remember not to neglect Africa or the Atlantic fronts.

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" I shall return" - Gen. McAuther

[Desert Foxx]

Russia threatening Berlin? Not until Berlin is already threatened from WEu. If there’s no pressure in WEu or at least Spain, it will be Germany threatening Moscow in Kar or Cau with Japan in Nov.

[Guest]

Yeah exactly until the Allies have landed in Spain/WEuro the Germans shouldn’t have to worry about Russia threatening Berlin unless you are doing something wrong. Even in RR w/o a bid it should take the Russians several turns before they can afford to take and hold EEuro.

[Desert-fox 0]

I agree Desert Foxx, Germany should be threatening Moscow through Karelia and not through Caucasus. The reason being Russia can attack you from Karelia to EEU and isolate the Ukraine on the first turn. Basically it’s who can hit close to the others capital first and that where the major battles between Russia and Germany will take place for several turns.

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“I have returned”-Gen. McAuther