Poll: German First Turn Build

2nd, with the loss of Africa and the middle east Britian (esp India) will be making 15 or so IPC a turn, effectively neutralizing any real pressure coming from them to cross the channel.

This is a major reason why I don’t advocate operations in Africa which are designed to hold it. First the Brits at 15 are not much weaker than they are at 21 or 24. Secondly, the assumption that they cannot pressure WE/Germany the same is ridiculous, they can still use placed troops in Karelia along with newly purchased troops to hit WE therefore the Germans can decrease their commit there either. In essence then nothing is gained. What’s more even if the Uk controls all of Africa they will only be at 27, assuming they build 4 trannies they will be ‘overproducing’ for their means which is no big deal. However, it is very possible for the Japs with Nz,Mad,Aust,India and Persia to keep the Uk at a mere 24ipcs even with all of Africa. So very little is gained if Germany clings to it.

This is not the reality of the game… First off, you won’t take Berlin by me spending 2 infantry a turn to fight in Africa, it is not a possibility.

But 2inf a turn is very expensive of a committment to make, what’s more the Allies can easily counter this, and make it so M84 is the only way the Axis can win. Should the Allies tech ie Hbombers even this will not be possible. 2inf a turn after 4 turns is 8inf. 8inf in Europe could be the difference between a successful lurch towards Moscow which likely means the game. I look at it like this if Germany can quickly gain and consolidate in Africa they can make it so when the Allies are finally able to begin digging Germany out the Germans can make up for this lost income in Cauc and Karelia which is far more dangerous for the Allies than anything Germany could do in Africa. Germany w/o Africa but with Karelia, Cauc, FinNor is still at 36. Germany with all of Africa excluding FwAfr, FeQ, Alg, and Libya is at 36. However with my way Germany is considerably stronger in Europe. Yes 2inf a turn won’t cost you the game right away, but it will prevent you from winning it.

The only real threat my German fleet will ever be under is a suicide mission with a bomber to maybe kill my transport.

I disagree I think that if Russia plays its cards right on R1 Germany will have to concede either a sub or a bb to the Uk on G1, and that alone is enough to destroy a bb trn. Even so if the Uk lands its air in Cauc on B1 they can attack the German fleet with 3ftrs bmb on B2 and thereby wipe out the German navy, and for the mere cost of 1 ftr.

I can all but guarantee you (and only dice rolls hold me back from saying guarantee) that if you do not fight me in Africa at all I will win the game. My first turn every fighter I own attacks the UK fleet (with my navy) in the med and atlantic destroying almost all of it (if not all of it) before it can consolidate. So the UK starts with almost nothing. I than drop off my 2 infantry in Africa and push there insuring that not only does UK not have any pieces, I have taken away its ability to produce more pieces. 15 IPC a turn is a minimal threat to Germany.

But you assume that the Allies will not regain much of Africa, the US can land in FwAfr and then hit SAfr on the next turn. It then becomes very hard for Germany to successfully defend Africa from the South and the West and the Allies can deprive them of much of the production therein. What’s more the Germans should not be able to destroy all of the Uk navy. Should russia go with their sub to the SpainSz the Germans will be all but forced to concede either a bb or a sub in the Med. Killing the bb would require the additional loss of a ftr or a trn both of which are acceptable as the Germans are already likely to lose 1 in the UkSz. Germany with only 3 air is not powerful enough to leverage its hold on Africa against Karelia.

You can try to sugar coat it all you like, but 10 IPC a turn off England and 10 IPC onto Germany will change the game.

But the issue is can Germany afford 2inf a turn into Africa, and can they expect to even be able to do that I say no. One trick I like to employ as the Allies when Africa looks tough to crack, which by the way it rarely is, is land in Spain with the Uk/US this forces the Germans back to defend WEuro which thereby reduces the pressure upon Russia considerably. What’s more should the Uk position its fleet in the WMed it is poised on its next turn to attack AES, Syria, Libya, FeQ etc. With the US in WAfr able to hit SAfr Germany will not be able to hold both and will have to concede on to me. Once this decision is made the Allies can reinvigorate the Uk with cash, but also gain a foothold to finally kick Germany out of Africa for good.

I have never lost a game playing Germany while I still held Africa. And I have been playing this game since it came out in 85.

How many games online have you played? I’ve lost games where Germany held Africa until the end, and they usually revolved around the Allies getting tech b/c of a planned tech strat which I couldn’t counter b/c I was

There are always other strategies than the tried and true methods of winning for both sides. I would say that the majority of games that played with Axis victories, henged on how well Germany does in Africa early on and how many losses they suffered on the Russian front. If Germany takes Africa early and is able to take Kar by turn 2-3 they have a good shot at winning. It also depends on how much pressure Japan is able to put on Russia and the U.S.

8 inf and a transport for southern europe. You have to control Africa, and the transport will help big time.

8 inf and a transport for southern europe. You have to control Africa, and the transport will help big time.

what would you do for dice rolls?

maybe it’s a hypothetical question. :P

LOL…

9 and 1

@theSexualHarrassmentPanda:

8 inf and a transport for southern europe. You have to control Africa, and the transport will help big time.

I really dislike the G1 purchase of a transport b/c I think it merely encourages the Brits to build 2bmbs and then on B2 attack bb 2trn with 2ftrs 3bmbs which enables them to take out your transport at no additional cost as they were going to lose a ftr to kill the bb trn anyway. In the end you merely waste 8ipcs for very little gain as the Germans cannot afford large numbers of troops in Africa anyway.

The extra trn allows attacks on both AES and Syr. The trn is only a nuisance after that. GBR fleet builds will be slowed down by the 2 Bmbs. And soon, the shift in cash flows to Ger.

@theSexualHarrassmentPanda:

The extra trn allows attacks on both AES and Syr. The trn is only a nuisance after that. GBR fleet builds will be slowed down by the 2 Bmbs. And soon, the shift in cash flows to Ger.

Unless the Allies either land immediately into WAfr and then slow down Germany from completely consolidating their hold on Africa. What’s more the Germans can’t really afford to send more inf into Africa than a typicl PAfrica bid would do. Like I said I never mind a G1 purchase of a transport b/c it is easy to kill and therefore a waste of money. What’s more Germany really does need men in Europe if they are to ever WIN the game. Just mastering cash flow will not lead to certain victory.

I normally play RR, so no bids. The games posted indicate that PAf is superior to trn buy. Allies usu do not have enough ships to safely land in Afr until round 3 or 4.

Of course, opposition deployments and battle results should weigh in on any purchase decision.