Appropriate Bid

[Papasmurph]

I was reading older posts on this subject and I have been seeing answers in the 8-9 range.  Perhaps I am a much more skilled allies player than axis player but this seems entirely too low.  The axis are so readily slaughtered that I can’t image 9 IPCs making much of a difference.  I would think 15 would be more reasonable but I think I could pretty easily defeat that too.

Two questions:  Is it most common to limit one unit per territory?  Do the IPCs carry over if someone doesn’t want to spend them all.

This is slightly unrelated but it goes along with different first turn strategies.  Why in the world would Germany ever build any kind of sea unit, such as the ACs that people suggest.  Am I missing something?

[Funcioneta]

No, more than 9 I think is too much. 8 gives room to nasty surprises with boats (there is a nasty one for Japan and another for Germany if you feel lucky at z2)

The simpler bid with 15 would be 1 inf to Egypt, 4 inf to Ukranie. That way you would have Egypt almost sure (near to 100%) and I doubt any would attack Ukranie with 10 germans defending it. Too much advantage

Another nasty combo: 2 inf to Ukranie (or Egypt), 1 jap tra to car sz. That’s pretty nasty indeed due Polar Express tactic (and still makes KJF futile) while giving germany enough breath to hold UK and USSR

If you ask me, I think 6-7 is enough, but sometimes I want play allies so then I must bid 9

[Hobbes]

@Papasmurph:

I was reading older posts on this subject and I have been seeing answers in the 8-9 range.  Perhaps I am a much more skilled allies player than axis player but this seems entirely too low.  The axis are so readily slaughtered that I can’t image 9 IPCs making much of a difference.  I would think 15 would be more reasonable but I think I could pretty easily defeat that too.

A 15 bid for the Axis makes them too powerful at start. If you are winning as Allies against such a bid then the Axis player isn’t too skilled.

Two questions:  Is it most common to limit one unit per territory?  Do the IPCs carry over if someone doesn’t want to spend them all.

This is slightly unrelated but it goes along with different first turn strategies.  Why in the world would Germany ever build any kind of sea unit, such as the ACs that people suggest.  Am I missing something?

You should set the terms before any bid, 1 unit per territory is usual but some play it with no restrictions. Another condition usually is that you can only place units on territories/SZs where you already have units of the same country. Finally, any leftovers from the bid are added to your starting IPCs.

Sometimes a 2nd transport for the Med can be useful if you are aiming to take Africa. You can always add another sub to SZ8 like it was suggested to try to kill the UK BB and TRN and the Russian sub by using those subs and 1 fighter from Norway and 1 bomber from Germany. The odds are 72% for winning but that also means that the bomber can’t be used on Egypt. The AC on the Baltic usually is used if G is going for a defensive posture or to try to link that fleet with the Med one on SZ7. I wouldn’t advise on both. Sometimes I buy a German AC for the Med later on to help the Japanese fleet protecting Southern Europe from landings.

[Papasmurph]

I can see how the extra transport in Japan would be pretty nasty but my instincts tell me to put it all in Europe.  I will have to play a few games to see how it plays out.  Who cares about Egypt?  Killing the fighter is nice I guess but I always take my units from Africa and put them into Europe…

Also, maybe I am super skilled with the allies so a bid of 15 would be the only way to challenge me  :wink:

[Hobbes]

@Papasmurph:

I can see how the extra transport in Japan would be pretty nasty but my instincts tell me to put it all in Europe.  I will have to play a few games to see how it plays out.  Who cares about Egypt?  Killing the fighter is nice I guess but I always take my units from Africa and put them into Europe…

Also, maybe I am super skilled with the allies so a bid of 15 would be the only way to challenge me  :wink:

Or just lucky :)

[Lucifer]

8-9 ipc is most common, I have seen 10 in a few games, but there are extremely few experienced players who would play allies if axis got more than 10.

[way2slo]

@Papasmurph:

……Who cares about Egypt?  Killing the fighter is nice I guess but I always take my units from Africa and put them into Europe…

I toyed with that idea a few times.  If the Ukrane is untouched you can put a nice hurt on the Caucuses.  However, you get over-extended easily and the UK’s Indian Ocean Feet in the Med on UK1 feels like a knife at your throat.  US does Torch and odds are Germany’s gone from Africa forever if you pulled the Libya troops out on G1.  R2 is some sort of counterattack.  G2 has you either pressing your luck or switching to a defensive posture in hopes that Japan can win the game for you.

[Papasmurph]

My reasoning behind abandoning Africa is that you can at least save a tank and an infantry.  You will lose an IPC or two each turn but Germany really wants to hit Russia hard and quickly and two units can make the difference.  Also, it is somewhat difficult to defend Western Europe while putting pressure on Russia so it makes sense to put extra defense there instead of Africa.  After all, Western Europe is worth 6.  When the axis start throwing a lot of units into Africa it gives the US a chance to get into the fray more quickly since they are only 2 sea zones from Africa so they can start dumping units there every other turn if they want to.  If you stack up tons of units in Europe it can take a really long time for the allies to start beating down Germany.  It might even take long enough that Japan can get to Russia.

I have played around a little bit more with bids.  I tried playing a game with a bid of 12 and it basically ended in a stalemate.  I think if I were to play against someone else I would take 12 to play the axis.  I might make that number lower at some point.  I dunno.

[cyan]

I bid 7 when i want axis, 9 when i want allies, and 8 if i don’t care.  I would like to try a 10 bid with a German fighter though. would be really interesting to have an extra 5 fighters by round 2.(4 fighters for Germany’s 40 IPC start). I usually put my bid in the Ukraine of Africa just depends on my mood.  A sub/transport bid would be interesting though.

[77stranger77]

I bid about the same way, only I’m hesitant to go under 8. If I really wanted Allies, I might bid 10 but 9 is the usual cutoff.

@cyan:

I bid 7 when i want axis, 9 when i want allies, and 8 if i don’t care.  I would like to try a 10 bid with a German fighter though. would be really interesting to have an extra 5 fighters by round 2.(4 fighters for Germany’s 40 IPC start). I usually put my bid in the Ukraine of Africa just depends on my mood.  A sub/transport bid would be interesting though.

If you’d like to try the fighter bid and the 4 fighter G1, I’d play you. I’ve never tried it or played against that sort of strategy.

[cyan]

@Fleetwood:

I bid about the same way, only I’m hesitant to go under 8. If I really wanted Allies, I might bid 10 but 9 is the usual cutoff.

@cyan:

I bid 7 when i want axis, 9 when i want allies, and 8 if i don’t care.  I would like to try a 10 bid with a German fighter though. would be really interesting to have an extra 5 fighters by round 2.(4 fighters for Germany’s 40 IPC start). I usually put my bid in the Ukraine of Africa just depends on my mood.  A sub/transport bid would be interesting though.

If you’d like to try the fighter bid and the 4 fighter G1, I’d play you. I’ve never tried it or played against that sort of strategy.

sure, do you have triple a?

[77stranger77]

Yes.

[cyan]

@Fleetwood:

Yes.

you’re on. email is ak_zorro_47@yahoo.com to do PBEM. I’ll be bidding 10 so please bid more than that ;) all you need is my email to start PBEM on triplea, right?
edit: llink http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=16888.new#new

[i rock]

what do you mean by “bid”

[77stranger77]

In Revised, the balance isn’t perfect. It’s slanted towards the Allies so in order to have an even game, players bid to take the Axis. The Axis gets to buy units to add to the board before the game begins. Generally the bid is between 5-10. Unless I’m desperate to play one side or the other, I’ll bid 8-9. The most popular bid locations are Libya and Ukraine.

[i rock]

ok so if you bid 9 you place 9 more troops of your choose

[77stranger77]

@i:

ok so if you bid 9 you place 9 more troops of your choose

Not 9 more troops, that would be ridiculous. 9 IPC’s worth of troops, most likely 3 inf.

[i rock]

ok i was going to say 9 new guys… make a very good german navy or add more men on asia for japan or evan an insanly huge africa corp for germany!

[daggaz]

I dont know… I dont get to play too much with a wide variety of people, but I regularly put the hurt on the allies with only a 4 IPC bid, for an artillery in Lybia  -the bomber is just icing on the cake for this fight…  Seems pretty balanced for me there, if I dont make any big mistakes, it just comes down to the ever so slight sway of the luck of the dice over the next turn or two to see where the game will probably be heading.  Anything more than that just seems OP… I would slaughter my opponent with a 10 or 15 IPC bid.

And its not like the opening is being done poorly…  Russia buys inf and a few art or tanks, stomps W. Russia and takes Ukraine usually with just enough force, stacks caucuses and wrussia (i never get that one back), and trades territories using fighters until the brits take norway and ready a stack for karelia.  Pull back from the japs always one country away from the dead zone, stacking in novo for mid game defense.

England usually buys some mix of navy and troops, to put pressure on germanys western front.  USA starts up the shuck shuck.  Standard fair really.  But its simply usually enough for germany to shred africa with minimal investment, hold it until the US is forced to divert troops, at which time Japan has spread the rising sun across the entire swath of the southern pacific and the indian ocean, and is usually able to reclaim the dark continent for axis hands, while at the same time putting the serious hurt into Moscow.

At this point, the game has gone on so long that I fail to see the massive statistical difference you would get from having, say, eight IPC instead of four on G1.  It really just comes down to the tactical errors your opponent makes, and how well you take advantage of them, be they ever so slight.

[77stranger77]

@daggaz:

At this point, the game has gone on so long that I fail to see the massive statistical difference you would get from having, say, eight IPC instead of four on G1.  It really just comes down to the tactical errors your opponent makes, and how well you take advantage of them, be they ever so slight.

The massive difference of bids 4 and 8 can mean taking Egypt with enough to deter a counterattack or can mean 2 extra units deterring or thwarting an attack on Ukraine. If Egypt isn’t to be countered, then the UK has all sorts of options. Still, it comes down to the dice - you have a point that it doesn’t always matter 4 to 8 and so on. With two units to Libya, Germany can expect to take it with 4 units plus their plane(s). With just one unit to Libya and good rolls, they could end up with the same 4 troops sitting in Egypt.

@daggaz:

But its simply usually enough for germany to shred africa with minimal investment, hold it until the US is forced to divert troops, at which time Japan has spread the rising sun across the entire swath of the southern pacific and the indian ocean, and is usually able to reclaim the dark continent for axis hands, while at the same time putting the serious hurt into Moscow.

How are the Allies managing Africa in your games? Is Germany taking South Africa as America first lands Algeria? Africa is almost always the first place I go with the US and UK. Lately the US has been in the Med for long term control. Unchecked Japan will definitely plow through Africa.