Yeah, we had that rule come up a few games ago but really the ‘unescorted’ thing is pretty ambiguous. In the end, we ruled that as long as a surface warship was in the same zone at the same time as the TR, then it could pass through without issue. Dunno if this rule was worth the extra complexity…
Seems to add even more fuel to the fire that DD are a way better buy than CC. Can we make DD 9 yet? Or do we go with CC at 11.
@Col.:
I guess another question is, what does “unescorted” mean? Can a surface warship come from a sea zone that the transport did not originate from to enter the “sub defended” territory and thus escort the transport? Also, what does “through” mean? Does the sub only attack if the transport enters and leaves the “sub defended” sea zone, or is it when it enters (which would seem to mean that the escort must start with the transport)?
EDIT: OK, the rulebook says “the sub can attack any transport that moves INTO or THROUGH its sea zone unaccompanied by surface warships.” So it’s when the transport enters. But the question still stands, does the escort have to start with the transport in the same sea zone?
in terms of common sense, no they shouldn’t have to “start” together. I can move 2 fleets from 2 different sz’s into a sz with an enemy fleet and 1 big battle takes place. but this is AA, so who knows what the “official” rule will be. I will never understand why a mech inf needs a tank to blitz. Blitzing takes place through an EMPTY square. It’s BS.
If I’m reading this correctly, one can “sneak attack” with a sub (against an undefended transport) during someone else’s combat or noncombat movement turn, subsequently affording the attack value of “2”. However, if you are not in a state of war with the Transport’s faction, you may not perform this attack, because you cannot perform an action that results in a state of war, except on your turn (as per the errata).
Additionally, the book’s description of this transport engagement states that surviving transports may then continue along their path for their remaining movement points. This leads me to believe that the sub sneak attack is only valid for one round, else all transports should just be removed immediately.
Yes, the rules say each sub fires once at a 2.
My guess is that in order to be protected, they have to come from the same sea zone.
They can be attacked, if they move into the sea zone unaccompanied. If the surface warships come from a different sea zone, it’s a separate move that results in the transports becoming accompanied after both of the moves. Since the move itself was unaccompanied, and it’s the move that grants the option for the subs to attack, the move made by the transports would have to include the surface warships, for the transports to be protected from the attack.
But, I could see it being FAQed the other way, as well.
Holy Crap! We never saw this one either! I’m gonna have to run off and grab the rules… :-o
again, it is in the rulebook which is a misprinted pile of garbage as we have learned. the errata has changed the way this plays.
again, it is in the rulebook which is a misprinted pile of garbage as we have learned. the errata has changed the way this plays.
The errata clarifies that you can’t attack the unaccompanied transports of powers you are not at war with. It still allows subs to attack the unaccompanied transports of powers you are at war with.
again, it is in the rulebook which is a misprinted pile of garbage as we have learned. the errata has changed the way this plays.
The errata clarifies that you can’t attack the unaccompanied transports of powers you are not at war with. It still allows subs to attack the unaccompanied transports of powers you are at war with.
No that’s not the question at hand. Let me give you an example.
I have a Transport in SZ4 and a Battleship in SZ7. The enemy has a Sub in SZ8. The question is could you have the Transport and Battleship meet up in SZ8 then continue their move to SZ1, since the Battleship and Transport met up on that spot and therefore the Transport will be escorted, or since the Transport and Battleship STARTED in seperate SZ’s would the Sub get the surprise attack on the way to SZ1?
We need an A&AP40 rules hotline set up ASAP.
I figure at least 25-30 operators on duty around the clock.
I suppose the original question was what major changes from AA50 have occurred, but it evolved into clarifying this strange rule that breaks at least two fundamentals: combat during the non-combat phase (which is why I thought they changed the AA rules a long time ago for flying over an AA gun) and using the sub’s attack value when it is not that player’s turn.
I caught this rule. Mainly because my son house ruled something similar into AA50. He wanted a sub (or better yet a fleet of subs) to always have the option of sneak attack on any surface ship crossing over w/o a DD. He was happy to see at least you can now sneak attack lone transports. He feels he was on the right track.
Any way with the new rule, I took it as if you merge war ships and transports from different sz into a sz w/enemy sub your transports would be considered escorted. Even if the sz the sub is in is the final destination for amp assault. These movements are simultaneous, once your ships are in the same sz they are considered one fleet.
I don’t have the rule with me. I don’t remember if this rule only applies to enemy combat, or if its allowed in enemy non combat too.
It’s allowed in enemy non-combat, as well.
@WILD:
Any way with the new rule, I took it as if you merge war ships and transports from different sz into a sz w/enemy sub your transports would be considered escorted. Even if the sz the sub is in is the final destination for amp assault. These movements are simultaneous, once your ships are in the same sz they are considered one fleet.
I agree
@WILD:
Any way with the new rule, I took it as if you merge war ships and transports from different sz into a sz w/enemy sub your transports would be considered escorted. Even if the sz the sub is in is the final destination for amp assault. These movements are simultaneous, once your ships are in the same sz they are considered one fleet.
Very true if all movement in any given phase is simultanious it wouldn’t make sense for it to be otherwise. Just like if a Transport, and Battleship, start in SZ1 and move through SZ8 even with a Sub they’d be able to split up, and one go to SZ4 and the other go to SZ7. If it works one way I’d say it works the other too.
Seems to add even more fuel to the fire that DD are a way better buy than CC. Can we make DD 9 yet? Or do we go with CC at 11.
CC at 11!
Q. Submarines can attack transports that move through their sea zone “unaccompanied by surface warships”. Under exactly what conditions do friendly surface warships prevent sub attacks on moving transports?
A. A surface warship that starts its movement along with one or more transports and moves with them will prevent sub attacks. Also, friendly surface warships that were already in the enemy sub’s sea zone and do not move will prevent attacks on transports that move through or into the sea zone.
This seems strange. If UK has a lone sub in z39, and I move a cruiser from sz37 to sz39, and a transport from sz42 to sz39, then the sub still gets a shot? Or is the cruiser a “friendly surface warship that [was] already in the enemy sub’s sea zone and [did] not move”? Either way, I feel like it could be worded different. It sounds like these “friendly surface warships that were already in the enemy sub’s sea zone and do not move” are intended to be only ships that were in the sz prior to the combat move. If that is the case (I would like to ask “why?”), I think it should say so, since it’s not really intuitive (to me), and the rule might therefore be interpreted as "friendly surface warships that exist in the enemy sub’s sea zone at the same time as the transport (since combat moves from different sea zones are in practice done separately and in an order) and do not necessarily move with the transport will prevent attacks on transports that move through or into the sea zone.
Simply arriving at or passing through a sea zone at the same time as the transport is not enough. Either a dedicated effort to escort it (moving along with it) or patrolling the area that it will pass through (remaining in the sea zone and not moving) is required to protect a moving transport from a sub attack.
I can see that we are going to have to walk through the sub rules step by step to get this straight. I reread the rules last evening and I was surprised at some of the subtle questions I missed.
First, it appears “defending” subs can shoot at unescorted transports. This is a slight contradiction to the rule that says transports can ignore subs during an amphibious landing. It appear the subs do get to make a single roll against the transports. However, if I read the rules properly, these subs would only hit on a 1.
