Late Game Allied Help

[Enkindu594]

I am currently playing in a tabletop game of Spring 1942.  We have just finished turn number 5, and due to time we are unable to finish tonight.  We plan on continuing the game tommorow.  Currently the Axis is in a favorable position, but as the Allies, I do not think that they have it wrapped up yet.  So I come here in search of some aid and advice on how we should try and overcome the foul beast that is the axis powers.  So that you can be specific in your suggestions, I will try to provide some context for the game.

Combined the Allies have 8 more production than the Axis.  That is a slim margin.  The UK has an industrial complex in Norway, and the US has 6 transports alternating in a pair, and a quad of trasnports bringing troops over from Eastern Canada everyturn.  Likewise I have 2 transports bringing brittish troops over.  Germany has 4 subs sitting outside of Berlin (In seazone 3?) and a MASSIVE Airforce (3 bombers, and 6-8 fighters).  Germany has a strong hold on Africa, but does not have it conquered yet.  The Brits have all been driven out of India, and Japan is crawling in Russia’s back door.  Japan is sitting on 4 transports, but no industrial complexes in Asia, although it is possible that those are coming.

What makes me feel we have a chance is that I have been able to get 2 additional fighters from the US to Moscow (there are currently 5).  In addition to that I’m getting 13-15 units between the US and UK into Europe.  I think that over the course of the next 2 turns I will be forcing Germany to Defend from my growing army coming from Norway AND deal with the threat of invasion on Western Europe.  Also, the Russian player has probably 15+ infantry/artillerly (8 infatnry 7 artillery, close to that), 2 fighters, and 2 or 3 tanks in Moscow.  he is going to trun and combat the incoming Japanese horde, while the UK and US sew up Germany.  I plan on taking it slow, and painfully, but I think that we can grind them down.

Thoughts?

[jiman79]

It sounds like a pretty standard game, a race between which falls first - Berlin or Moscow.
In this case it is very nasty that the Germans has such a large airforce and a solid source of income from Africa.

I assume allies has a very strong atlantic navy also, otherwise the Germans would probably had hit it with everything already. But why don’t you take out the subs in sz3? You must have a destroyer and a lot of air within reach.
Allies need to be in sz3 threatening to land in Germany - this keeps Germany honest and takes some pressure of USSR.

I find your ratio between infantry and artillery in Russia wrong - with that much artillery Russia should switch to buying all inf (maybe some armor) to enhance defence capability. Armor is very handy for Russia in order to make “surprise assualts” towards an unsupported Japan stack in either Persia, Sinkiang or Yakut.

But it is difficult to give advice without a glance at the board.

[Enkindu594]

I have been urging my partner (who is playing russia) to buy more infantry and less artillery, but it is hard to get him to listen.

He has pictures of the board on his phone, and if I can get him to e-mail them to me I will post them.

Also, I have a large airforce, but that is one of the rules changes for Spring of 1942, submarines and aircraft don’t interact

[jiman79]

you can certainly hit subs with air, as long as you bring a destroyer - the subs can only hit naval units.

[newpaintbrush]

I think the Allies lost.  There isn’t a lot of detail of what’s going on, but that’s my impression.

I would recommend not urging Russia to do anything.  Even if you were a pro player, if your partner doesn’t want to listen, your partner doesn’t want to listen.  Pushing him is not going to help things.

Besides which it seems to me that what’s happening is that Russia is being pressured to compensate for bad UK/US play - and in any event, massing pure infantry at this point is not probably NOT what Russia should do.  Probably there really isn’t much hope in any event, but I would say (and again without any real idea of what the board looks like) if Russia thinks it can carry on some offense, it should do infantry/tanks, and if it’s going to be squashed without much support from UK/US for a while, it should use inf/artillery for strafe attacks.  Not ideal, but it’s the best that it can do.

One rejoinder to jiman79’s post.  There is no fog of war in Axis and Allies.  It is impossible to make “surprise assaults”.  It would have been far better to say that armor (tanks) have a mobility advantage that let them threaten a far greater number of territories and to maneuver quickly to create or exploit openings.  Artillery are often more use tactically, but tanks have a huge advantage strategically.

[Enkindu594]

So what makes you say it’s completely over?  And what has hurt us was on turn two Germany used it’s entire airforce to wipe out what was the UK/US fleet.  It cost Germany some units, but it slowed down the US/UK 2 full turns of getting units onto the board.

Do you not think that producing in Europe, and getting a total of 15ish units a turn (between the US and UK) will put enough pressure on Germany quickly?  Also, I think I can come down and start to help to re-claim africa as the US, granted that’s going to mean purchasing a few more transports, but as the US I think I can afford it.

Do you think that if I were to change strategy a little bit and start committing to buying serious amounts of bombers (The US currently has 2, and the UK 1) that could turn the tide?

[Rorschach]

Africa is lost … forget about it.

Focus entirely on wiping out Berlin, and doing it now.  If you can throw 15 units per turn into Berlin, how many units can he counter with?  How many units and what type of units are sitting there right now?

I don’t think added bombers will turn the tides.  Use them to your advantage though.  Throw a destroyer at the 3 subs along with those bombers and a couple of fighters and the subs will be gone.  (Fighters can hit subs IF a destroyer is present.  Those subs however cannot hit the fighters/bombers at all … so if they hit, you lose the destroyer and the combat is over.  You need to take out the subs all in one shot unless the subs are unlucky and don’t sink the destroyer)

But again, without seing the board it’s difficult to tell for sure.  Even if Moscow falls, all is not lost immediately unless you resign at that point.  If Berlin is nearly empty then it can fall and you can throw everything back into regaining moscow and heading towards Japan.

[Enkindu594]

I am trying to post pictures of the game, but it is saying I am not allowed to post links, and it is not letting me copy/paste to get a picture in, how can I show you guys?

[CptnKeener]

try photobucket

[Hobbes]

@Bunnies:

One rejoinder to jiman79’s post.  There is no fog of war in Axis and Allies.  It is impossible to make “surprise assaults”.  It would have been far better to say that armor (tanks) have a mobility advantage that let them threaten a far greater number of territories and to maneuver quickly to create or exploit openings.  Artillery are often more use tactically, but tanks have a huge advantage strategically.

Master Wabbit, if the opponent is surprised by the attack doesn’t mean that it is still a ‘surprise assault’?

[newpaintbrush]

@Hobbes:

Master Wabbit, if the opponent is surprised by the attack doesn’t mean that it is still a ‘surprise assault’?

No, that’s just an assault that surprised the opponent, not a surprise assault.

Suppose you pick up a dog and it whizzes on your shirt.  That’s technically assault.  Is it a SURPRISE assault?  Well . . . you might be surprised by it.  But it’s within the behavioral range of a dog, so although you might be surprised by it, I wouldn’t call it a “surprise assault”.  You could very well have seen it coming, and it COULD have reasonably have been avoided.

On the other hand, suppose you come home late one night when suddenly your dog drops on you from out of a tree and strangles you with an improvised piano wire garrote while humming Broadway show tunes.  Now THAT is a surprise assault.  Especially if your dog has hired a camera crew.

A surprise assault should properly have “shock and awe” not merely “shock”.

[Col. Ty Webb]

And especially if you’ve never seen him watch one musical in his life.

[newpaintbrush]

I wonder whatever happened to this game.

Re:

So what makes you say it’s completely over?

If you’re trying to go KGF, and Germany controls/contests Africa on the fifth turn, and you’re asking for advice, it’s probably an uphill battle.  You would only be asking for advice if you were unsure that you could protect Moscow / crack Berlin, and with Germany fueled by African IPCs, and without a veteran’s perspective on how to run a tight logistic game with the Allies, I would guess probable loss for the Allies.  All the Axis need to do is pump out a bunch of tanks and run a bit of interference with Germany’s airforce, which as you mentioned was quite strong.

It sounds like Japan is screwing around (no industrial complexes by turn five), which means you may have a chance, but again, I lack context.

If US was building some Pacific fleet, and Japan went infantry with very light naval/air support (pumping IPCs into 1 destroyer, then subs and/or fighters to match the US threat) then the Allies really are in  trouble, because then probably Japan has some idea of what it’s doing.

If Japan was unopposed in the Pacific and built battleships and carriers, though, the Allies are probably going to win because Japan can’t just lay back and make Germany do all the work.  Same if Japan used its transports to screw with Alaska/Hawaii/Australia/etc. instead of establishing a fast hard unit core in Asia/India to help support Germany’s push against Caucasus.  You might see Japan doing both (i.e. hitting island targets plus hitting Asia/Africa) with five transports, but four transports on turn five with no industrial complexes built means SOMETHING weird is going on - like I said, either Japan was prepared to meet some unusual threat, or Japan was screwing around.

[Hobbes]

@Bunnies:

but four transports on turn five with no industrial complexes built means SOMETHING weird is going on - like I said, either Japan was prepared to meet some unusual threat

In one word: Godzilla  :-D

[jiman79]

@Bunnies:

I wonder whatever happened to this game.

Re:

So what makes you say it’s completely over?

If you’re trying to go KGF, and Germany controls/contests Africa on the fifth turn, and you’re asking for advice, it’s probably an uphill battle.  You would only be asking for advice if you were unsure that you could protect Moscow / crack Berlin, and with Germany fueled by African IPCs, and without a veteran’s perspective on how to run a tight logistic game with the Allies, I would guess probable loss for the Allies.  All the Axis need to do is pump out a bunch of tanks and run a bit of interference with Germany’s airforce, which as you mentioned was quite strong.

It sounds like Japan is screwing around (no industrial complexes by turn five), which means you may have a chance, but again, I lack context.

If US was building some Pacific fleet, and Japan went infantry with very light naval/air support (pumping IPCs into 1 destroyer, then subs and/or fighters to match the US threat) then the Allies really are in  trouble, because then probably Japan has some idea of what it’s doing.

If Japan was unopposed in the Pacific and built battleships and carriers, though, the Allies are probably going to win because Japan can’t just lay back and make Germany do all the work.  Same if Japan used its transports to screw with Alaska/Hawaii/Australia/etc. instead of establishing a fast hard unit core in Asia/India to help support Germany’s push against Caucasus.  You might see Japan doing both (i.e. hitting island targets plus hitting Asia/Africa) with five transports, but four transports on turn five with no industrial complexes built means SOMETHING weird is going on - like I said, either Japan was prepared to meet some unusual threat, or Japan was screwing around.

Yeah - what happened in the game?
I agree with Bunnies analysis - against a decent axis player, this game is probably over. But against novice players anything is possible, they may perform unfeasible or uncoordinated moves. In that case it is all about putting yourself in the position to exploit this. By this I mean armor for Russia, establish atlantic navy to threaten Germany, Western Europe and Eastern Europe.