Allies lose every game.

[Telamon]

I’m just glad you said ‘chic’ logic, which otherwise means ‘trendy’ logic.  Because if it were ‘chick’ logic, that would be pretty offensive….

Peace

[Bigtiti]

@General:

G1

German Buys - 5 x tank
             2 x inf

4 inf: Poland -> Baltic States
1 art: Poland -> Baltic states
1 tank: Poland -> Baltic states
1 inf: Germany -> via trn sea zone 5 -> Baltic States
1 art: Germany -> via trn sea zone 5 -> Baltic States
(crusier sz 6 gets shore shot)

1 x tank: Poland -> East Poland
2 x Tank: Czech -> East Poland
1 x tank: Bul/Rom -> East Poland
1 x inf: Bul/Rom -> East Poland

1 x tank: Bul/Rom -> Ukraine
2 x inf: Bul/Rom -> Ukraine
1 x art: Bul/Rom -> Ukraine

1 x fighter: Poland -> SZ6
1 x sub: SZ 5 -> SZ6

1 x FIghter: Norway -> SZ2
1 x Sub: SZ7 -> SZ2
1 x Bomber: Germany -> SZ2

1 x Fighter: NW Europe -> SZ12
1 x sub: SZ7 -> SZ12
1 x Fighter: Germany -> SZ12

Link to German setup turn 1

http://java.cms.livjm.ac.uk/homepage/staff/taedfolk/Axis%20and%20Allies/German%20Turn%201%20setup.jpg

Germans win all combats and take light casualties.  Worst loss is 1 x

fighter in SZ 12.

Results

http://java.cms.livjm.ac.uk/homepage/staff/taedfolk/Axis%20and%20Allies/Germans%20turn%201%20after%20combat.jpg

After place units

http://java.cms.livjm.ac.uk/homepage/staff/taedfolk/Axis%20and%20Allies/Germans%20Turn%201%20after%20place.jpg

R1

Russian Buys = 2 x inf
       1 X art
       2 x tanks
       1 x fighter

No Combat moves

Non combat illustrated below.

leave 7 inf in bur
move 3 inf towards rus
move russian tank to kar ssr
stack 5 inf 1 art on archangel
stack 6 inf in cauc

Unit placements -

1 x tank 1 x fighter in kar ssr
2 x inf 1 x art 1 x tank in cauc

End of Russia Turn 1 map

http://java.cms.livjm.ac.uk/homepage/staff/taedfolk/Axis%20and%20Allies/End%20of%20Russia%20turn%201.jpg

note: What have I done wrong here?  how can I make a better T1 buy and setup

to stop the germans taking kar or get in a position to trade back and still

be strong in the south.

J1

Japanese buys-

2 x trn
1 x inf

Combat moves

2 x ftr: SZ 57 -> SZ 53
1 x dstr: SZ 51 -> SZ 53
2 x ftr: SZ 57 -> sz 56

3 x inf: MAN -> sui
2 x inf: Kia -> Fuki
2 x inf: FIC -> Yun
1 x inf: FIC -> Fuki
1 x ftr: MAN -> Yun
1 x ftr: FOR -> Yun
1 x ftr: Jap -> Fuki

1 x inf: Car islds - via trn (SZ 51) > Phil isld
2 x inf: Car islds - via trn (SZ 51) > Borneo (Borneo Taken)
1 BS: SZ 61 -> SZ 50
1 x inf 1 x tank - via trn (japan SZ 62) > Phil isld

1 X Carrier w/ 2 x ftr: SZ 61 -> SZ37
1 x art 2 x inf -via trn x 2> SZ61 -> SZ37
1 x cruiser: SZ61 -> SZ37
2 x ftr: SZ37 -> SZ 35
3 x inf: SZ37 -> Burma
1 x art: SZ37 -> Burma

japan Turn 1 combat setup west map

http://java.cms.livjm.ac.uk/homepage/staff/taedfolk/Axis%20and%20Allies/Japan%20turn%201%20west.jpg

japan Turn 1 combat setup east map

http://java.cms.livjm.ac.uk/homepage/staff/taedfolk/Axis%20and%20Allies/japan%20turn%201%20east.jpg

Combat

Sui taken
Burma Taken
SZ 50 win
Phil islds taken
SZ 53 win - ftr/dstr lost
Yunnan Taken
Fukien Taken
SZ 56 win - ftr lost
Hupeh stalemate - chinese retain territory
SZ 35 win - ftr lost

West map

http://java.cms.livjm.ac.uk/homepage/staff/taedfolk/Axis%20and%20Allies/japan%20end%20of%20turn%201%20west.jpg

East Map

http://java.cms.livjm.ac.uk/homepage/staff/taedfolk/Axis%20and%20Allies/Japan%20end%20of%20turn%201%20east.jpg

---

So this is my turn 1 up to now.  How would you approach this game?  I have
left Gibraltar so as to let a few more strategies in the med be viable.  But
ordinarily I would take gibraltar with the germans to deny uk a NO and to
stop a build up of air units there on UK 1.

The allies need you!!!

why do you want to keep karelia in the first place?

[Panzer Leader]

I have played as Russia several times in the 41 set-up with full players on the board version with NOs and have found it difficult but not impossible to win as the Allies. I did things a little differently: For starters I bought mostly all men and a few tanks, no planes or anything else until several turns latter. It is a bit boring of a game as you try to hang on until help finally arrives. As Russia you MUST keep taken back what Germany takes away so as to keep a buffer zone between Moscow and Germany. Kareila is usually a loss until UK comes to help. UK should strike at Findland and Poland (if possible) or Baltic’s if not. That cuts Germany off to the north and Russia can concentrate on the south. Try to keep at Germany and Italy at bay for as long as possible. UK should build a factory in South Africa on T1 and build tanks there every turn and planned the rest for the Europe attacks. This helps cut off the access to Russia through Jordan. I can seem daunting at times and you feel like giving up but I hung in there and turned it around before Russia fell. Once you stop the advance you got it made. Also always attack Germany’s offensive pieces first if they are vulnerable. Make sure you always protect your tanks and use them only when safe, same goes for the planes (if you manage to get some). You change your buys as the game allows and as you progress. 8-)

[Funcioneta]

@Panzer:

I did things a little differently: For starters I bought mostly all men and a few tanks, no planes or anything else until several turns latter

What are doing the japs against that strat? If they are wise, they can annoy USA’s rear by rogue landings at Alaska, a full Polar Express buildup or even a early surprise attack against WUSA with their 5 starting trannies and 6 starting planes. A tank rush in Asia is valid also, Japan is quicker than it seems and can reach Africa sooner than west Allies if ignored. Japan can buy bombers and SBR USSR and maybe even UK until stone age (in this game Japan is uber-rich for some strange reason and can afford that more than USA)

I think you are forced to buy surface ships as allies, even with a ignore Japan strat, so I guess you mean buy 1 round of defenders and trannies and later buy only land units for the suck

[Panzer Leader]

@Funcioneta:

@Panzer:

I did things a little differently: For starters I bought mostly all men and a few tanks, no planes or anything else until several turns latter

What are doing the japs against that strat? If they are wise, they can annoy USA’s rear by rogue landings at Alaska, a full Polar Express buildup or even a early surprise attack against WUSA with their 5 starting trannies and 6 starting planes. A tank rush in Asia is valid also, Japan is quicker than it seems and can reach Africa sooner than west Allies if ignored. Japan can buy bombers and SBR USSR and maybe even UK until stone age (in this game Japan is uber-rich for some strange reason and can afford that more than USA)

I think you are forced to buy surface ships as allies, even with a ignore Japan strat, so I guess you mean buy 1 round of defenders and trannies and later buy only land units for the suck

In one game UK bought a IC on India and actually managed to contain Japan for at least 4 turns before it was getting tough. They then moved some of Egypt forces over to India to re-inforce. By that time USA had been buying Pacific fleet from the beginning and had moved its fleet out to challenge Japan, so Japan had to turn around to counter US. Japan did get huge but they took too long getting rid of China and were not able to secure India, so they were not able to concentrate on Russia and eventually the Allies gained the advantage.

In another game UK bought an IC on South Africa and on India on turn one and bought all tanks on both for the first 6 turns. These were enough to hold Egypt and India. UK also flew a couple of his planes over to add to it. They were not able to concentrate on Germany as much but they eventually got to Europe in time before Germany could defeat Russia.

In yet another game UK tried just the South African IC and it worked also but India fell before US could get there. Russia was in trouble for a bit, but with luck managed to hold on as UK did take away Finland and kept hitting Karia and Balkans as Germany would take them. Russia managed to take back the countries right beside Moscow and after about 10 turns the Allies started to gain momentum. Most of Russia’s troops and tanks were kept in Caucausus. I never bothered fixing the Karelia IC when it was bombed, that way Germany has to fix if they capture.

In any case it is difficult and Russia is the key, because if they fall the Axis is on its way to victory.

I believe that USA has to buy fleet and deal with Japan and UK has to be the deciding factor in keeping Russia alive by stoping all three of the Axis countries advance as soon as possible and countering there moves. UK has to buy ships when they can depending upon what is left from T1.

If the Allies get a little luck on T1 they can make a good go of it. If they loose everything the Axis can hit on T1 they will loose if they cannot recover quickly.

[bongaroo]

@Panzer:

In one game UK bought a IC on India and actually managed to contain Japan for at least 4 turns before it was getting tough. They then moved some of Egypt forces over to India to re-inforce. By that time USA had been buying Pacific fleet from the beginning and had moved its fleet out to challenge Japan, so Japan had to turn around to counter US. Japan did get huge but they took too long getting rid of China and were not able to secure India, so they were not able to concentrate on Russia and eventually the Allies gained the advantage.

That sounds like very weak or inexperienced play on the Japanese players part.  Japan should have no problem taking India in turn 2 or at worst 3, even with the UK building anything there.  Germany and Italy should be having a good old time if the UK is sinking money into India and not forcing Germany to protect against landings.

[Panzer Leader]

@bongaroo:

@Panzer:

In one game UK bought a IC on India and actually managed to contain Japan for at least 4 turns before it was getting tough. They then moved some of Egypt forces over to India to re-inforce. By that time USA had been buying Pacific fleet from the beginning and had moved its fleet out to challenge Japan, so Japan had to turn around to counter US. Japan did get huge but they took too long getting rid of China and were not able to secure India, so they were not able to concentrate on Russia and eventually the Allies gained the advantage.

That sounds like very weak or inexperienced play on the Japanese players part.  Japan should have no problem taking India in turn 2 or at worst 3, even with the UK building anything there.  Germany and Italy should be having a good old time if the UK is sinking money into India and not forcing Germany to protect against landings.

Actually we have very experienced players that have been playing A&A for a long time. We have almost all the different versions, AA50 being our favorite. UK brought over some of the Africa and Australian units for help to hold India. Japan goes first and they went after Philipinnes, Hong Kong, and China first, so on UK’s turn they figured they could hold it and brought a couple of planes over to help. US moved its fleet to the Caroline inlands by the end of turn two, so Japan was threaten already there as well. We always tend to go for the jugular when we play.

A matter of fact we just played another 41 game last weekend where I was the Axis, and I actually was not able to take India until turn 5, which ended up being the turn the Allies conceded. On turn 5 Germany managed to roll 17 tanks into Moscow and take it. A screwed Russia up by sacrificing all of Italy’s forces on turn four to take Byelorussia, so that at the beginning of turn 5, I could blitz my tanks through right into Moscow.
That actually was one of my best games as the Axis. It is actually hilarious because on Germany’s first turn I purchased an AC and a destroyer, one tank and one canon. Germany went all their forces against Baltic States and took out UK’s fleet around UK, and that was their turn. On Italy’s turn they purchased two tanks and took Ukraine, Jordan and Egypt. On Germany’s second turn they purchased another AC, a sub, two tanks, and one infantry, and hit Karelia with everything that could reach and captured it. Russia had brought everything they could into Karelia and bought two guys there also, but were not able to hold it. They did not have enough to take it back and Germany was able to hold on to it. Germany T3 they bought all tanks and moved those to Baltics on turn 4. Germany also bought two tanks on Karelia every turn after owning it. So by end of turn 4 there was 17 German tanks ready to “blitz” to Moscow throught Byelorussia from Baltic and Karelia. Also on turn 2 Italy bought all tanks, turn three they bought an AC and plane. On turn 2 UK came out and took Norway, they thought they had enough to defend against the German fleet, but I decided to attack all out against the UK’s fleet on turn 3 and managed to eliminate the fleet and Germany had two loaded ACs left only with a transport. On turn 4 Germany loaded that transport and moved down to Gibraltor and took that, then on Italy’s turn 4 I moved their fleet out to join the German fleet for a total of three ACs loaded, 1 battleship, and 2 cruisers, by this time the US had built an AC fleet at Washington and had three bombers and two planes. He decided to hit my combined fleet. He rolled badly and only hit twice on the first round, whereas Germany hit all his pieces on the first round and eliminated the US fleet and bombers as well, only losing a cruiser. Japan hit US fleet on turn 4 also and wiped out pacific fleet wiithout losing very much. So at the beginning of turn 5 Germany takes Moscow, Africa completely belonging to Germany, China done and India gone, and with my two massive fleets (Atlantic and Pacific) the Allies conceded.
It was a beautiful crushing. :-D
Japan can concentrate on India but must do so right from the beggining ignoring China somewhat, but every game turns out different because of counter moves. 8-)

[bongaroo]

Meah, In all my games all the UK has left is 2 inf in TRJ and no fleet to move anything with.

But don’t take my advice, I loose all my games on this site.

[schwerpunkt]

Reply to the subject line of the topic at hand…

Yes… when playing as if AA50 is Revised, in a straight all out KGF, Japan dominates.

A solution I’m playtesting with some success right now in multiple games - start buying one bomber per turn from US1 on, fly to Britain for a concentrated pummeling of (mostly) German and (some) Italian factory production. Get a shuck of one transport (two total under the protection of heavy British naval purchases UK1 & 2) and a couple infantry per round up and running. If possible take Norway with US, build an IC. Start producing a maddening trickle of US infantry flowing into Russia, with bomber support.

Now the Pacific. Build and keep the pressure on with the rest of your American IPCs (20-30 per turn, depending on progress in Europe). You easily have 2 CVs + 4 ftrs quickly for a base; destroyers and subs (and a small land threat) to follow. Then it becomes a game of opportunity… can’t tell you what to do from there, but opportunities will present themselves. The main idea is to harass, play the Pacific NO game, keep the Japanese player uncomfortable.

A nice thing about the steady buildup of bombers in Britain (despite the unavoidable loss now and then) is the ability to have some or all of them in the Pacific theater quickly, giving a nice set of fangs to the relatively defensive navy growing on the West Coast of the US. No Japanese player likes the sight of 2 CVs/4ftr/3 dest/4 subs/couple of loaded trannies/3 bombers around turn 4. Makes you shift in your seat as Japan… and purchase units that aren’t hurting Russia…

The UK and Russia have to keep up steady aggressive pressure, screening vs. Japan while assaulting Germany with all they have (a Germany reduced somewhat from bombing damage), and waiting for the US to get in gear. The US is the key… the basic tenet here is to replicate (to some extent) the role of America in WWII.

[Bardoly]

Welcome to AxisandAllies.org schwerpunkt!

A well-written post. +1 Karma to offset your -1 Karma.  How did that happen with you being so new?

[maverick_76]

The number one tried and tested rule if you are Russia, or anyone for that matter: when in doubt, build infantry. Load up on men and make sure to save your expensive “heavy hitters” like armor and fighters, never leave them without “fodder” to soak up good dice rolls. I have yet to play AA50 but I know that any other game of AA I have ever played, when in doubt, mass your men!

[axis_roll]

@maverick_76:

I have yet to play AA50 but I know that any other game of AA I have ever played, when in doubt, mass your men!

Yes, boots on the ground (a.k.a. infantry) will always be an important part of your forces… but !

This is where AA50 is different.  Russia NEEDS something other than inf, for they start with PLENTY of those in 1941.  Moreso in this version of A&A than any other, more ‘other’ units are needed, especially fighters and bombers.

[bugoo]

A big thing in this game as allies as well is to keep German and Italy with as low of an income as possible.  I know that sounds obvious, but it is harder said than done.  Do NOT abandon Karelia!  That is a terrible idea.  UK1 can land 2 figs there along with 2 extra russian inf being built giving you 11 inf, 1 art, 1 arm, 2 fig, 1 AA gun.  Following on UK2 they should begin landing atleast, but with luck more, 4 ground units a turn there.  Yes G can take it, but that stack will be destroyed the following turn by the UK.  US should be in africa at the end of turn 2 in force.  Do not let Italy get both of her NOs for more than 2 rounds, do not let Germany get 3 for free.  If you SBR, do it to Italy first.  Germany can only build 10 units a turn (unless they buy an IC) and rely on Italy to stack france with INF.  Be sure to threaten atleast 2, with luck 3, imporantent territories with drops (usually france, italy, and berlin).  And try to get russia her 2nd NO by turn 4 or 5 so they can afford to hold off the Japan monster.

One purchase that works well for me on R1 is 6 art 2 inf.  Place the inf in Kar, art in moscow.  On R2 buy mostly/all tanks, move all moscow and karelia forces into Belorussia and put a good stack of units into Eastern Ukraine.  Typically you will have on Belo: 13 inf, 8 art, 1 arm, on Ukraine 4 ish inf.  Plus your 6 arm in back may force the Germans to pull back (doesn’t always work depends on G’s purchases, but that is alot of Russian punch has odds vs 15 inf 10 arm or 5 inf 18 arm), and if you get the Germans out of East Poland that is always a very good thing.