thank you for the answer
India on turn 2?
-
- Play with tech, usually favours Allies due to Heavy bombers.
Sure? Moscow seems a good target for jap HBs or even normal jap bombers. Even London can be a good target against german or even jap HBs
But tech may give early slight less disadvantage to allies because they have not to overdefend London and Moscow just in case of rogue paras/mech inf. On the other way, there are jap HBs and without tech, there is no chance of building 4 guys at SAF (or 3 at Persia), so I think tech doesn’t affect the balance too much. Tech simply forces you being a better strategist and tactician because you have to take into account more factors than without tech
-
- Play with Dardanelles rule, shields Caucasus from Italian invasions.
Dardanelles aid, but Europe is not the broken theater: it’s Asia. So you need a bid there and/or delete page 10 of rulebook
-
- Play without NOs, better for Allies. In this case I think you need to play with interceptors opt rule to give Axis a chance.
Agreed that playing without NOs almost cancel allied disadvantage, but it’s a bad solution: it would lead again to old Classic/Revised KGF fanmania
The other alternative is playing 1942 scenario (much less imbalanced). But I must agree with Subotai: a bid will solve the things, the only doubt is what sistem use to bid and how much bid
-
Funny then that the league bid is FOR the axis!
Also DAAK has just launched it’s first tourney with a bid for the axis.
I’m pretty sure most league games are getting non-negative bids for the Axis too
-
The problem with this assumption is I see no Allied resistance at all.
What if Russia stacked Bury on R1?
Is Japan still going all out for Ind.What if UK stacks Per instead and Russia stacks Cauc?
Per can be deadzoned. Making a J move to Per susceptible to a strafe from Russia via Inf in Cauc and arm from anywhere in range.In 4 turns Russia places about 40 units alone.
What if UK/US shuck to Arch?
It is only 2 turns from UK to Mos. 3 turns from Ecan to Mos.What if Fra falls to UK or US on turn 3, 4, or 5?
Puts Ger in quite a situation.What if Ita falls to US on turn 3, 4 or 5?
My point is, there are plenty of things the Allies can do. Yes reinforcing India isn’t easy, but the Allies will not automatically lose the game if UK retreats from Ind on UK 1 or UK 2.
-
@DY:
I’m pretty sure most league games are getting non-negative bids for the Axis too
I’d bid negative if allies received units instead of IPCs. As is now, I’ll simply not play more AA50 league games, nor more official 1941 scenario games after 1st tourney ends. Of course, I’ll continue in Revised league :-)
-
Sure? Moscow seems a good target for jap HBs or even normal jap bombers. Even London can be a good target against german or even jap HBs
Well, Allies has three bombers at-start, Axis one. USA is the only power (maybe UK if they don’t build an IC) that doesn’t have a land front they must supply with units, so they are the one power which can put most money into research. Germany won’t choose air/naval table. Basically Japan is the only axis power likely to get Heavy bombers, but their main opponent USA is hard to bomb with SBR unlike Germany which has a nice air base in Britain next door. I’ve played with tech only a few games, but Heavy bombers led to Germany falling before Japan had time to get to Moscow in one game I remember.
-
@Kavik:
But then you will build things to hold India far too well, which is why it can’t be fixed with a bid.
Ok, then I take cash only, 30 ipc for allies. ADS, no tech, 41, NOs. You play axis and show me how its done :evil:
-
Well, Allies has three bombers at-start, Axis one. USA is the only power (maybe UK if they don’t build an IC) that doesn’t have a land front they must supply with units, so they are the one power which can put most money into research. Germany won’t choose air/naval table. Basically Japan is the only axis power likely to get Heavy bombers, but their main opponent USA is hard to bomb with SBR unlike Germany which has a nice air base in Britain next door. I’ve played with tech only a few games, but Heavy bombers led to Germany falling before Japan had time to get to Moscow in one game I remember
Germany has indeed money for techs (all countries saving Italy and Sparrings of the Far East have enough). Air/naval tech is not so bad for germans (roll 1 tech team round one and even supersubs and improved shipyards can be used), and anyway 4 usable of 6 means some people will still try it for HBs. Also Germans could simply ignore HBs tech and buy normal bombers for SBR London and soviet ICs
As for USA, it’s not them who japs will bomb, it’s soviets as I said, and soviets will have 15-20 less IPCs to spend in repairings and units than germans. Also, nothing prevents a japanese bomber SBR cau, landing at ger and then start merry SBRs on London also :wink: In fact, Japan, being the richer country of the game (15+ economic advantage over the richer allied nation), can invest both in tech and bombers
-
The problem with this assumption is I see no Allied resistance at all.
What if Russia stacked Bury on R1?
Is Japan still going all out for Ind.What if UK stacks Per instead and Russia stacks Cauc?
Per can be deadzoned. Making a J move to Per susceptible to a strafe from Russia via Inf in Cauc and arm from anywhere in range.In 4 turns Russia places about 40 units alone.
What if UK/US shuck to Arch?
It is only 2 turns from UK to Mos. 3 turns from Ecan to Mos.What if Fra falls to UK or US on turn 3, 4, or 5?
Puts Ger in quite a situation.What if Ita falls to US on turn 3, 4 or 5?
My point is, there are plenty of things the Allies can do. Yes reinforcing India isn’t easy, but the Allies will not automatically lose the game if UK retreats from Ind on UK 1 or UK 2.
This is the entire problem, there is absolutely nothing the allies can do if Japan goes all out for Caucsus from their opening move. Even if the US goes full bore at Japan, Japan still has time to hit Cauc with 25-30 units (varying only by the loses incurred running over what little resistance stands in your way) on turn 5. They US can’t seriously threaten Japan until turn 3, and that initial threat can be ignored for the first turn considering our whole navy except one carrier is already there defending the pacifc, which allows Japan to get this huge force into Cauc and then turn to face the US, if they are even there, on turn 5 as that force does it’s job in Cauc. As long as the US is not seriously, very seriously considering the Pac IJN on turn 4 was already 4 Fig, 2 CV, 1 CC, 1 CA, 1 DD, and Sub in the position I wound up in at the end of turn 3 that I posted above, Japan can then just keep putting 9 units every turn into persia.
It’s really the only opening anyone should be doing with Japan, slam 28 units into Cauc on turn 5 then either turn to face US or continue funneling in 9 units every turn to Persia if the US isn’t spending all of their money in the Pacific. I don’t see how the Axis can lose considering that there is nothing in Japan’s way of doing this. A bid won’t solve it because it is such a massive force. It’s about 23 or 24 units that hit Persia on turn 4… what exactly were you planning on having done about that before the end of turn 3? Something like 12 or 14 had units hit India on turn 2… There is nothing in the way, and only Russia could even slow it down… by sending 6 infantry to India on turn 1. They obviously can’t do that, and it’s not worth it anyway because all it will do is slow it down by 1 turn and make the turn 6 hit on Cauc all the more powerful for it in the end. Any pressure from the US won’t happen until the initial force is already on it’s way.
A bid can’t fix this. It’s way too much. The initital setup needs to be changed so that no more than 2 transports can reach India on turn 2, and I would also move the destroyer and transport from India to Africa. That give the UK player the option of staying there for a SA IC, or getting those inf to either Eygpt or India (India would be a good idea:-). That navy still dies every game, just on turn 2 instead of turn 1. It also allows those to inf to defend India while putting them 1 turn away so they can’t attack from India on turn 1. I think with those changes Russia sends two Inf, UK brings the inf from Africa… and India becomes a place where Japan can still steamroll, but only if the Allies let them.
I really like AA50 a lot, which is why I bothered coming to the forum to bring this up. If you really look at the end of turn 3 position in the post above, and realize that there is nothing in the way or that can be in the way and they can be in this position every game if they want, then you see why the Allies need to be able to put up a better fight for India. It should be possbile for it to fall on turn 3, but not on turn 2 as an extension of Japan’s opening move. As long as Japan can do this, the Allies can really never win. Russia will die on turn 5 or 6, maybe 7 they really can hold out sometimes, every game. Certain territories are “lynchpins” and India is the best example among them. I, personally, think it is the most important one on the map. Even more than Caucusus because it keeps Cauc alive, Cauc is what dies if India falls. It’s the Allies back door, it can’t go down for good turn 2 every game or the game won’t work. But I am not ripping on the game, I am trying to help by pointing this out.
-
Obviously any unbalance can be solved with a bid, even if the bid rules restrictions are 1 unit pr.TT. and no mixing of nationalities in the unit placements, like Russian units in Persia etc.
If anyone claims a very big advantage for either side, like 20 ipc or more is needed, then I strongly suggest that you play against me in a TripleA live game, no tech, NOs, ADS or LL.
-
I still disagree. It is very possible when going KGF to get russia’s 2nd NO by turn 3 and have germany on the run. Takes some skilled allied play, but is very doable, as is dead zoning persia with little effort, or actually holding it until the US can make it into the scrap. This is with a 7 IPC bid in LL. Then france falls around turn 4-5, giving the US almost the same income as Japan and Russia is cashing in around 40+. Is it easy? No, but still very possible.
Is KJF still not an optimal strategy, for now yes. But there is a way and eventually we will find it. India can be held against Japan, provided the US guns for Japan proper. The islands can be liberated, etc. One thing i still want to try is UK carriers at india with US figs on 'em. With US carriers in LA those figs could potentially reach SZ 62 in 1 move from both india and LA. Provided russia can hold against da germans for that long.
The big thing is so many people play russia as a defensive force, and that is not how to do it. G shouldn’t get there 3rd NO till turn 2-3, make 'em pay in units for every inch of soil they take. Russia is the german meat grinder, use it as such! At least in a KGF strat that is =).
-
@ Kavik_Kang, I don’t think you’re an internet troll, but think about your own statements, you’re not saying that axis are favored (like allies are favored in AAR) and need about $10 to balance the game, you’re saying it can’t be fixed with a bid… :roll: and that the unbalance is greater than Classic :roll:
Send a pm and we will play in the unstable lobby. 20 ipc unit bid for me as allies, no tech, NOs. ADS or LL is up to you.
-
I am also happy to play you in the forums with a 20 IPC bid, although LL rules would be better since “rolling” can always be a factor
-
add me to that list as well!
-
Germany has indeed money for techs (all countries saving Italy and Sparrings of the Far East have enough). Air/naval tech is not so bad for germans (roll 1 tech team round one and even supersubs and improved shipyards can be used), and anyway 4 usable of 6 means some people will still try it for HBs. Also Germans could simply ignore HBs tech and buy normal bombers for SBR London and soviet ICs
As for USA, it’s not them who japs will bomb, it’s soviets as I said, and soviets will have 15-20 less IPCs to spend in repairings and units than germans. Also, nothing prevents a japanese bomber SBR cau, landing at ger and then start merry SBRs on London also wink In fact, Japan, being the richer country of the game (15+ economic advantage over the richer allied nation), can invest both in tech and bombers
Ok, let’s list what techs each power can use, I list each power if the investment is worth it:
Improved arty: Ger, Sov
Rockets: Ger, Sov, Jap, UK, Ita
Paratroopers: Ger, Jap, UK, USA
Increased fact: Ger, Sov, Jap, UK
War bonds: Ger, Sov, Jap, UK, Ita, USA
Mech inf: Ger, Sov, JapSuper subs: Jap, UK, Ita, USA
Jet fighters: Ger, Jap, UK, USA
Improved shipyards: Jap, UK, Ita, USA
Radar: Ger, Sov, Ita
LRA: Ger, Jap, UK, USA
H Bombers: Ger, Sov, Jap, UK, Ita, USAGermany has 6/6 on land table and 4/6 on air/naval, and shouldn’t choose air/naval in most cases. All in all, Allies have a much higher chance of getting Heavy Bombers and turning the tide of the game with them. Even if Allies miss H Bombers they will get good enough techs to make the tech IPCs worth it, but Germany can’t put IPCs into Air/naval table without a high risk of wasting valuable IPCs. With UK and US going for air/naval table and Japan going for it as well, you still have a 50-100% higher chance for Allies, enough to say tech favours allies.
Suggested Topics
