Need a little help the game is preditable

[WindowWasher]

@Axisarmpit It depends on who the players are, and at what level. Brand new allied players could need a bid of 60 because they dont know how to focus on certain objectives and properly utilize their IPCs. But more seasoned players could only need a bid of between 0-20 depending on the strengths of the two players. This is for OOB btw

[Axisarmpit]

@WindowWasher
Hi WW

The more I study the initial set up the more alarmed I become. Isnt it true that if Japan sends all its fleet and airplanes south… and builds a sea base in Hainan at the end of its first go, she can attack India on its second turn?
British warships might stall the Japanese fleet by declaring war, but their suicide would only briefly stall the Jap advance?

[barnee]

@Axisarmpit

UK can block 37 with the India DD so turn 3 soonest on the India attack. Yea, it’s a tough row to hoe for the Allies oob

[WindowWasher]

If India buys Infantry t1 and t2 it becomes very costly for Japan, especially with some planes from anzac or Mediterranean. A combination of that, China applying pressure, and US and ANZAC going hard should prevent most early india takeovers.

[WindowWasher]

Japan cant utilize DEI, and ANZAC gets that income for a long time, which leads to a ridiculous amount of fighters, subs, or whatever they want to focus on.

Also, In the case that this happens, apply pressure with the russian troops in north, get china manchuria, and yourself korea (6 IPCs in OOB).

[Axisarmpit]

@barnee
Ahh but if Japan is not at war with UK …Blocking ships do not work at all. Japan can put 16 ships into sea zone 39 in Round 2 if she buys a sea base in Hainan. There could be as many as 23 planes in a position to attack India if Japan occupies Yunan or Shan State after Round 1 or 2 which is perfectly feasible. I think this kind of aggression would be decisive in most games.

[WindowWasher]

@Axisarmpit You wouldnt let Japan take Shan State or Yunnan using china, also, if you buy just infantry, and keep your planes in india, Japan will have to bring more than their starting ships.

[WindowWasher]

Say Japan has their ships in 36, the UK just puts a destroyer in 37. If Japan wants to declare war and take India on J2, it would have to go through the destroyer which would block it. If you block correctly… You can even delay the most ambitious of Japanese players to turn 4

[Axisarmpit]

Would you agree that Japan CAN be in Sea Zone 39 with its entire fleet by the end of Round 2?
Japan is NOT declaring war so it can sail right by blocking ships and can sit inside 39 whether British ships are there or not? Japan hasnt fired a shot or said an angry word?

[WindowWasher]

@Axisarmpit Yes, so on J3, japan can attempt India

[Axisarmpit]

@WindowWasher

Ok. Im not misunderstanding the rules then. Thanks for your patience.

[WindowWasher]

No problem

[Axisarmpit]

@WindowWasher

Its as much about understanding what your enemy is capable of…

Ps I actually paid my Window Washer today for the first time in three months

[barnee]

@Axisarmpit

well yea that wouldn’t work then :)

[Axisarmpit]

@WindowWasher
Apologies WW. Im probably splitting hairs but Japan could still attack India on its secong go IF she declares war the moment she does an amphibious landing? The presence of British ships does not prevent an amphibious landing from taking place. The grey area is can the Jap fleet sail by/through blocking ships to get into such a position?

Im timing the declaration of war as the moment Japan fires her first shot in the amphibious landing. Can she do this? It seems reasonable.

The odds may be stacked against Japan in terms of ground forces but isnt an India assault in R2 still feasible?

[Flying Tigerz]

@Axisarmpit Unfortunately, this isn’t the case. A DoW is done at the beginning of the turn, which means that you’d have to stop and fight the destroyer the UK had placed to block you from entering SZ39.

From the rulebook (emphasis my own): “Declaring War If there are no restrictions currently keeping you from being at war with a power on the other side (see ‘The Political Situation‘), you may declare war on that power. War must be declared on your turn at the beginning of the Combat Move phase, before any combat movements are made, unless otherwise specified in the political rules”.

[WindowWasher]

That ^^^

[Axisarmpit]

@Flying-Tigerz
Thanks FT…

Im getting there!

[freh]

@Flying-Tigerz There’s one exception to whether newly-hostile ships block enemy movement on the turn that war is declared:

From the rulebook: “During your Combat Move phase in which you entered into a state of war, your transports that are already in sea zones that have just become hostile may be loaded in those sea zones (but not in other hostile sea zones). In effect, transports may be loaded in their initial sea zones for amphibious assaults before war is declared, while the sea zone is still friendly.”

I’ve actually never seen this in play, but it’s part of the rules nonetheless.

[Red Harvest]

@freh
The place where that might be applicable (loading in a newly hostile sea zone due to DOW) would be something like the G2 DOW if the Russian cruiser moved into the same sea zone as the transport on R1.

For example, if during G1 the transport was left in SZ 114 (with the German cruiser for instance), the Russian cruiser moved in while still at peace, and there was a G2 DOW. If during G1 Germany had placed some infantry/etc. in Germany proper, then they could be loaded by a transport starting in 114 and moved to SZ 115 to land in Baltic States without combat in 114. Of course, they would have to survive any defense in SZ 114 to land the troops.

One could even do something like building a DD, a TT, and an arty/inf mix in G1 to place in 114/Germany to load in 114 on G2 and land in 115 on G2 DOW anticipating opposition from the sub and needing the DD to be able to kill the sub and reduce risk of losing the cruiser and transports.

The scenarios even for the simple above example with very few units, get surprisingly complicated with the mix of builds, placement, initial load/amphib assault, sub/destroyer/air combat limits, and the like. The sparse number of units involved mean the results of any combat are very dicey. This dicey aspect is why the early Italian/UK battles are so variable. Italy can get crushed, or it can be quite threatening based on one or two early combats.

Depending on where the Russian air moved on R1, I am not keen on the idea of moving transports to amphib assault Baltic States–a move made with the intention of securing from an R2 counterattack. If the Russians want to waste a wing of their army in the Baltic States to be defeated in detail on G3, then let them. (I am more interested in concentrating the German column in Eastern Poland threatening both routes to Moscow at once with numbers that can survive an early concentrated counterattack by Russia.) The Russian air might all be in Novgorod at the start of G2 requiring more substantial German air commitment to discourage a scramble in 115, with the possibility that the transports could still be taken out by the air on R2 since the TT’s won’t have air support and might be bereft of warships as well or be facing a sub with air with a lone cruiser depending on what happened in G2. The R2 planes can fly back to Moscow or land on a stack after such a strike.