UK ICs

[bugoo]

I’m wondering what everyone’s opinion on building an IC as the UK, and if so where and when.

The biggest reasons you would want an IC, maybe even on turn 1, is to help in the pacific, middle east, and africa as it takes time to get more units into those theaters.  On the other hand, bombers can reach Persia, Sudan, China, and a few other nations within a turn from the island, and you need money to take on the Europe front for fleet building.  Combine that with few good locations for an IC and i’m not too sure.

India would be a great location, but ultimately it cannot be defended.

Egypt is in the same boat, great location, but difficult to keep Italy away.

South Africa would be nice, but it takes just as long to get units from that location into the fight as it does from the UK herself!

Eastern Canada would be pretty pointless due to its location.

Australia doesn’t look too bad, and the US can reinforce with 2 fighters on turn one to help its defense, but you can only threaten the Pacific, it doesn’t help get units into the middle east.

What does everyone else think, just ignore those areas and go for landings?  Wait a few turns?  Did I miss a good location?

[Flying Tiger]

I’ll have to look again but it seems if Japan wants to take India it can BUT they have to commit everything on turn 1 to set it up turn 2 don’t they? If they are all out for India they have to forget about other targets. I think it depends on Japans first turn whether or not it is wise to build an IC in India.

I have not played as Japan yet but it seems Australia is a better and easier target on turn 2. It is setup by the turn 1 attacks on Borneo and new Guinea.

[spectre_04]

I would agree with the first post.  Egypt, Australia, India, are all going to fall.  South Africa, canada, and Australia are too far away to really help.

This just illustrates how thin that GB was stretched at the time.  My advise is not to be tempted in buying a factory on the fist turn and using the money for something else.

[creeping-deth87]

I’ve played only a few games thus far but I have to say British factories in India definitely do a lot to slow down Japanese advances into Asia. If Japan is going for naval superiority, an Indian factory can also go some way to potentially diverting the Japanese fleet from other endeavors (such as pursuing national objectives; if nothing else, it could at least subvert some of the Japanese boats from the American front).

[bugoo]

To defend an Indian UK I do have an idea although it is a stretch, even from the double trans.

Turn 1 pull back all but 1 inf to Persia, send the trans-jordan inf to join, along with the egypt tank and fig (if they survived) and well as your bomber (optional), ensure US sends 2 figs to Australia.

On turn 2 counter attack/move all units back into India. This gives you 4 inf, 1 art, 1 arm, 1 fig, 1 bomb.  This should be more than enough to kill whatever took it, then have the US follow with there 2 Australian figs for defense.

Downside is you cannot produce anything until turn 3, upside is japan is pretty far away.

The other thing that may help south africa is the Australian transport, going east it can begin shucking inf on turn 4, going west turn 3, not sure if that would be worth it though, maybe if you can dead zone India for a few turns.

[Gallo Rojo]

I’m on the opinion that an UK IC in India is nothing but a nice present for Hirohito… but if you want to walk that walk…

a) Since Japan moves first then UK (in 1941), watch out what Japan does on its first turn… they may not commit everything against India on their first move.

If an Indian factory seems soundable…

you should have moved two USSR infantry to Persia on Turn1
then send as many UK fighters to India via London-Moscow (turn1), Moscow-India (turn2)

Be aggressive against Japan everywhere else…

one big step-back about the India IC is that it requires a big commitment from the UK… trying on holding India you may lost Africa to the Italians and you may not be able to mount a soundable attack against Germany (specially if Germany obliterates the Royal Navy during its first turn)

[thrasher]

During my last game I built a UK factory in India. Which I lost almost immediatelly… :(

[tin_snips]

you just have to watch the game closely, and judge if it’s wise to place the IC or not. keep in mind that just because you bought it, doesn’t mean you have to place it straight away. just see how your roles go before commiting

[Woodstock]

@tin_snips:

keep in mind that just because you bought it, doesn’t mean you have to place it straight away.

Do you mean “You dont have to place it there, you can place it soewhere else aswell”, or do you mean “You dont have to place it now, place it in round 2”?

Because the latter is not an option, according to the FAQS.

[Perry]

India/Australian IC = instant loss to Japan

Suth Africa IC: now, this one will prolly survive, and what it will accomplish is that it will stop the axis from ever gaining SAF. Also, Africa will be retaken 1-2 turns quicker than else. However, it will mean that UK will devote 15 ipc in a one-time investment, and then 6-10 ipc/turn , for units built inf SAF. Perhaps not the best way to use UKs limited funds in -41 scenario…

[Woodstock]

@Perry:

India/Australian IC = instant loss to Japan

Suth Africa IC: now, this one will prolly survive, and what it will accomplish is that it will stop the axis from ever gaining SAF. Also, Africa will be retaken 1-2 turns quicker than else. However, it will mean that UK will devote 15 ipc in a one-time investment, and then 6-10 ipc/turn , for units built inf SAF. Perhaps not the best way to use UKs limited funds in -41 scenario…

Dont forget that it can be a nice take off point to the pacific/asia aswell.
If we actually have to choose a location (Im not sure UK shoud buy one at all), then IMO it should be this one.

The most secure, the most versatile.

[allies_fly]

Doesn’t an Australia (or even Indian) IC depend alot on what Japan has done.

If Japan goes all in to  Russia, they may not be in position to threaten a UK IC for a round or two.

Australia is a VC country, and there’s lots of cash around it, so that might be a worthwhile investment.

[Perry]

@allies_fly:

Doesn’t an Australia (or even Indian) IC depend alot on what Japan has done.

If Japan goes all in to  Russia, they may not be in position to threaten a UK IC for a round or two.

Australia is a VC country, and there’s lots of cash around it, so that might be a worthwhile investment.

The thing in -41 is, that japan doesnot need to choose….

They can take China, IND, AUS AND capture east russia…there’s not too much strat involved. it’s mainly to optimize piece usage…

[rockrobinoff]

@Perry:

The thing in -41 is, that japan doesnot need to choose….

They can take China, IND, AUS AND capture east russia…there’s not too much strat involved. it’s mainly to optimize piece usage…

That really is it. Japan strategy is reduced to economy of force and speed.

[captainjack]

@Woodstock:

@tin_snips:

keep in mind that just because you bought it, doesn’t mean you have to place it straight away.

Do you mean “You dont have to place it there, you can place it soewhere else aswell”, or do you mean “You dont have to place it now, place it in round 2”?

Because the latter is not an option, according to the FAQS.

Is the FAQ up yet?  I haven’t seen it on the AH website??
Thanks.

[Lynxes]

The thing in -41 is, that japan doesnot need to choose….

They can take China, IND, AUS AND capture east russia…there’s not too much strat involved. it’s mainly to optimize piece usage…

The game we played last weekend I tried to just push all at Germany with UK and it didn’t really work out that well. The big problem was that I tried to go for France after having wiped out the Italian fleet rather than eliminating Italy completely. Also, my low IPCs after a few turns kept UK down and couldn’t build air force or enough naval units.

I do think that a South African IC is a really good deal. You can spend as little as you want if the Axis ignore Africa but otherwise its a good starting point to avoid UK falling to 20 IPC/turn which was really awful in our game! At least with Africa below Egypt you can stay at around 27-28 IPCs which is a minimum to be a threat to Germany.

As for Japan I think the choice in the '41 scenario is whether to focus on attacking the US mainland in order for Germany+ Italy to finish off Russia with US occupied defending West US, or to do the old JTDTM. A really good Allied strategy should be able to deal with both these strategies! Japan takes China, India and Australia, yes, maybe, but that needn’t be fatal if the Allies know what they’re doing.

[spectre_04]

One strategy that worked well for me was building an IC in Australia on the Frist turn, thus giving you two turns to build up inf there before japan can reach it.  I then followed up with buiding an IC in Java after I reclaimed it from Japan.  This required lots of fleet combinations with the U.S. navy as well as considerably more contributions of U.S. money.  It does allow you to build up a sizeable enough force to recapture most if not all of your british colonial holdings and threaten Japans seizure of mainland asia and india.  I still beleive that my strategy would have worked well had not my Japanese opponent hit both Fighterbombers and long range aircraft, which entirely negated my fleets!!! :? :?

[Mach]

@spectre_04:

One strategy that worked well for me was building an IC in Australia on the Frist turn, thus giving you two turns to build up inf there before japan can reach it.  I then followed up with buiding an IC in Java after I reclaimed it from Japan.  This required lots of fleet combinations with the U.S. navy as well as considerably more contributions of U.S. money.  It does allow you to build up a sizeable enough force to recapture most if not all of your british colonial holdings and threaten Japans seizure of mainland asia and india.  I still beleive that my strategy would have worked well had not my Japanese opponent hit both Fighterbombers and long range aircraft, which entirely negated my fleets!!! :? :?

I guess it depends on J1 openers.  In the games I’ve played so far though (1941), Japan would be able to hit Austalia with 4 troops (Borneo/East Indies), two fighters; or 1 if the sz35 UK destroyer hit (sz37 carrier), BB (Philippines) and cruiser all on J2.

[bbrett3]

I started I topic like this a while go and ultimately came to these conclusions

Africa: Most of the countries have too small IPC values, are in danger of being captured by the Italians, or are too out of the way, also the Americans usually start to land men in Algeria turn 1

Middle East: IPC values are way too low to make an IC worth it

Australia: It serve as a decent Naval Base, its hard to mobilize land troops though……

India: Probably the best choice, Decent naval base, you can flood ground troops into mainland Asia, as long as you stay defensive B1 you can use China as a distraction, and start sending your tanks rollin’ through

[Uncle_Joe]

A Brit IC in South Africa coupled with a strong US Pacific presence can make life a merry hell for Japan. Add to her difficulty by sending a few Russian infantry into China and suddenly the ‘unstoppable’ Japan has a whole lot of problems to deal with. In turn, this relieves pressure on the British Empire and on Russia since Japan isnt gobbling up the backfield and threatening the 2-IPC territories east of Moscow.

Personally I think a SA IC even if ALL it does is help save Africa is worth it. And 2 tanks per round can really put the hurt on Italy in Africa, again saving Brit IPCs each turn. I’ve found that that factory eventually pays its own IPC cost off in saved territory in a few turns and thats not counting the hurt that inflicts on Italy or the potential to irritate Japan.

A Brit factory in India is a target for Japan IMO and most J1 moves I’ve seen played leave enough firepower to bear on India to take it (a costly attack, mind you) if the Brits build the IC. Australia is the same way - there is just no way to guarantee holding it long enough use it. The only safe spot is SA and I think its actually more useful than Australia would be since it helps with Africa as well as providing potential Pacific pressure.

I suppose if Russia wants to commit a LOT of infantry to defending India, the Brits might be able to get away with it, but it still a risky area IMO. Japan can bring an awful lot of firepower to bear quickly if its ever weakly guarded and that really cuts down on its utility IMO. And Russia without 4-5 extra infantry in the south is gonna feel mighty fragile for a while. Granted it will likely head off a lot of later Japanese pressure as well, but in the short term you might lose a lot more if Germany/Italy breaks in down south.