Still a Japan round 1 declaration of war

[allweneedislove]

i keep reading posts that japan declare war round 1 like in pac40.

the two reasons being

1. usa gets its at war national objective

2. usa can declare war on euro axis aswell as japan.

however, after looking over the rules, map, and unit setup i have come to the conclusion that japan will attack round 1 as usual. it is evident that a j1 dow in pac40 is far superior to a j2 or j3 dow. so now lets look at the two arguments i keep seeing.

1. usa’s at war NO is actually 10ipc less in the global game so the deterent is actually less in global

2. at war or not usa can not land units in europe untill round 2 and does not have a significant landing untill round 3 or 4. usa can land units in africa on round 1 but can not have a significant landing untill round 2 or 3. so there is no real difference between usa being in the war on its first or second turn.

[The Fire Knight]

I agree. The only reason. The only one (unless the changes they’re talking a about for the pacific side come through). Would be the russians. Might as well take them out turn one, and then continue with India crush as usual.

[Zarnak]

It’s more of a decision then it is in AAP40 alone.  Ideally you’d want to start the war against Russia OR US first - not both.  Russia gets a +5 for going to war w/ the European Axis.  US gets +30.

There’s just too many variables to say “the best strategy is…” w/o playing it.  The axis better be on the same page though!  Global could lead to some interesting yelling around the table.  :lol:

[allweneedislove]

@Zarnak:

It’s more of a decision then it is in AAP40 alone.

how so?

@Zarnak:

Ideally you’d want to start the war against Russia OR US first - not both. Russia gets a +5 for going to war w/ the European Axis.  US gets +30.

the ussr objective is for going to war with the euro axis. so japans round 1 declaration of war does not effect ussr. usa’s bonus drops from 40ipc to 30ipc

@Zarnak:

There’s just too many variables to say “the best strategy is…” w/o playing it.

you are right that i can not really say what the best strategy is without playing it, but from the map, unit setup, and rules that i have read so far the axis are best to have japan declare war on its first turn.

[UN Spacy]

@The:

I agree. The only reason. The only one (unless the changes they’re talking a about for the pacific side come through). Would be the russians. Might as well take them out turn one, and then continue with India crush as usual.

Because it’s so easy taking out three stacks of six infantry each on J1.  :roll:

I highly doubt the German and Italian players will want to see their Asiatic ally attack so soon. Short-term is might seem lucrative but once that happens, and once the Americans get in Africa much earlier, then the military situation is probably going to deteriorate very rapidly for Axis efforts to conquer Africa.

Think about it. On the US’s second turn they’ll be shipping out units to French North Africa, which, if the French player is smart, will combine the three infantry into a single stack in Algeria. Combine those French forces with American landing forces and the Italians suddenly have to worry about their flank, much more so than they did historically.

I might seem pretty general and broad here, and that’s intentional: thanks to Axis and Allies’ ever-shifting kaleidoscope I can’t say anything in concrete. For all I know a J1 is still valid. But, we’ll learn in five days!

[Zarnak]

@allweneedislove:

@Zarnak:

It’s more of a decision then it is in AAP40 alone.

how so?

I have multiple scenarios floating through my mind.  Does Germany want to do Sealion?  If so - they’ll probably want the US to sit it out at least the first turn.  Will Japan insist on a G1 attack on the US?  You’re spreading limited forces in a target rich environment.  UK will have possible have more of the RN left at the end of the turn.

What happens if the US only declares war on Japan?!?  It has the option of declaring war on Germany/Italy but nothing makes it do so!  I can see myself cruising down to Brazil to get replacement income for the Phillipines.  Build up for that turn 3-4 push you mentioned in Europe/Africa but put most of the 80+ income into the Pacific theater.  Have the USSR declare war as well and have a dogpile on Japan.

What will Japan do if the USSR (moves before Japan), moves it’s air force ominously to it’s eastern borders?  What will Germany do?  Will you still go for the J3 India crush?  A couple soviet tanks running around freeing China territories could cause havoc for Japan.  Those lime green Chinese are amazingly resurgent.  Options, options, options.

[allweneedislove]

@Zarnak:

@allweneedislove:

@Zarnak:

It’s more of a decision then it is in AAP40 alone.

how so?

I have multiple scenarios floating through my mind.  Does Germany want to do Sealion?  If so - they’ll probably want the US to sit it out at least the first turn.

good point if germany is attempting sealion then j1 dow is very bad. but i assume that there will not be too many sealion attempts. (actually there will probably be 1 attempt for every gaming group, just becuase they will want to see if it works, however after several games i assume there will be very few sealion attempts)

@Zarnak:

What happens if the US only declares war on Japan?!?  It has the option of declaring war on Germany/Italy but nothing makes it do so!  I can see myself cruising down to Brazil to get replacement income for the Phillipines.  Build up for that turn 3-4 push you mentioned in Europe/Africa but put most of the 80+ income into the Pacific theater.  Have the USSR declare war as well and have a dogpile on Japan.

remember usa only gets an additional 30ipc for its at war bonus. and it is if usa is at war not 30ipc for at being at war with g and another 30ipc for being at war with j.

usa could spend all of its money in either theater in either a j1 dow or j2 dow, the question is if a j1 dow is going to happen all the time. i think it will.

@Zarnak:

What will Japan do if the USSR (moves before Japan), moves it’s air force ominously to it’s eastern borders?  What will Germany do?  Will you still go for the J3 India crush?  A couple soviet tanks running around freeing China territories could cause havoc for Japan.  Those lime green Chinese are amazingly resurgent.  Options, options, options.

im not sure what japan will do in those scenarios. i cant wait to play the game. but i think from all i have read that they will declare war round 1.

[Guest]

I do still believe that Japan cannot afford to wait. The situation certainly does not get better for Japan if Japan doesn’t do the J1. Interesting to see exactly how things will work out once more than a few global games have been played.

What you want to avoid is a J1 attack resulting in uncle Sam saying ‘thank you’ and uncle Adolf saying ‘scheisse’. Two full US pacific fleet buys for round 2 and 3 could make it interesting. Can UK/Soviet Union/France ‘hold’ against Germany/Italy long enough for the US fleet to kill the Japanese one?

[Flashman]

Question:

If Japan goes to war with the UK, can the USA declare war on Japan “instantly”, or must it wait until it’s own turn?
In other words can the UK use US air bases etc during the intervening turn?

[Krieghund]

The US must wait until its turn, so the UK would not be able to use US bases right away.

[TitusAndronicus]

A J1 attack in global will likely incur the “soft underbelly” strategy every time, which probably wont work out well for the Axis.  Think about the US player being able to just roll through Africa, liberating what few UK territories had been taken in the interim on his way, straight into the Med and into Italy.  Italy falls, Germany is pinched, Russia drools and Japan is crowned king of the "half"xis powers.

A good German player can try to reinforce Italy with German inf, but the UK will be at near max production and its going to be difficult protecting both France and Italy from the US behemoth.

[Plasticdeathbydice]

I am not a big fan of J1 attack - I think alot of that money starts heading towards Germany/Italy…and if I am an axis player I want Germany/Italy to not see a green pc of plastic rolling dice against me until US4-5 at the earliest…not US2!!!