Alternate 41 setup or 42 setup for Global

[questioneer]

On Larry’s site, he is gathering some info for some “Larry Endorsed House Rules” for Global 40.  One of the issues is a possible alternate setup for tournament play.  The pros/cons of each option are on the following link so I suggest you scan through some of the comments first before voting.

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2324

It doesn’t sound like he will do both so I did not add that option in the poll.  Poll will close 3 months after release of Europe 40. :-)

[Emperor_Taiki]

I have a new idea.

I really enjoyed AA50 and although both scenarios are great, I like 1941 better.
Like people say the gameplay is more varried, however i find most of the variation is in the pacfic and not so much Europe. The Germans pretty much carry out barbarossa the same way and there are no big battles the first few turns. Japan has alot of choices in which inlands they can take and where to attack the US fleet.

So as it is it seems people who like 1941 want the game to start in july right before the invasion of the soviet union, and 1942 people want it to start in spring before the battle of the coral sea.

My solution is to have it start in December/October 1941. Pearl harbor is when the war got global and so it is the perfect date for a tourny game. the initial invasion of the soviet union is ending and the battle of moscow is getting under way. For people who are worried that skipping barbarossa will mean the ostfront will be less exciting are forgetting that there are alot more soviet territories in AAE40 that AA50. I would rather get on with stalingrad and kursk than the reletive tediousness of the initial advancing through russia. Remeber Berlin is now six spaces away from moscow and stalingrad

In the pacific, with the december/october 1941 start date you get exactly the same variety that you get from the AA50 1941 start date(including pearl harbor, and the japanese inland blitzkrieg) without the wierd fast forward six months into the future .

So another option is December/october 1941. could this be added to the pole? cause i am not voting for the other two options.

A&A always seems to make having the 1941 battle of moscow impossible. In the 42 scenario its already happened and the oprtunity has passed, thus forcing the player to attack south and fight in stalingrad. In 41 the germans are too far away and A&A dosnt have a mechanic that allows the german player to make as much progress as his historical counterpart. I prefer october 1942 so that it more fully includes the battle of moscow, but i understand if players dont want the game to start out with a battle over a capital.

Because AAG40 is so much more detailed the starting dataes should be really specific. What month would the 1942 start? I assume the standard 1941 is july.

[allweneedislove]

1942 scenario would be great.

the axis reached their peak in 1942. this is why axis and allies traditionally starts in 1942.

classic, revised, anniversary, spring42 all start in 1942(anniversary has the option), and it would be great for global to have that option aswell.

[WILD BILL]

I like what Emperor_Taiki recommended. Fall of 1941 would be a great start time. The political rules would be in the rear view mirror and most of the pro neutrals would be decided. Germany would start deep into Soviet tt, but Russia would have more then just inf at this point to slow down the German advances and start counterattacks. Germany would still have to decide which direction to concentrate its forces. There would still be plenty of action in the Med & Africa. A late fall 41 would also work best in the Pacific. It would be about a J3 attack. Jap would start w/plenty of navy/air & transports to perform its dirty deeds on all the Pac islands (it would feel a little scripted though). There would have to be enough incentive for Jap to attack UK & US as they would not yet be at war. I guess you could make it so the US/UK can declare war on their first turn, and US gets its war time income automatically in its first collect income phase. That way Jap has nothing to lose.

[Marauder]

Heck ANY “official” alternate setup would be great - really extends the life of the game - if your group breaks one of them just play the other!

[Dylan the Canadian]

Why are people talking about more confusing setups, when we don’t even know the main setup!

[squirecam]

The poll heading really mistates the intent. If a “tournament setup” is to be done, it must take into account the limited time frame available (6-8-10 hrs, likely 8).

A global game wont get more than 6-7 rounds in that time frame.

If you “start” in 1940 (or even 1941) then you “waste” 3-4 rounds just getting to 1941 (or 42).

The poll doesnt make that clear, and is misleading as to why a tournament setup is needed.

A 1940 game is not practable because 3-4 rounds are “setup” and the USA sits on the sidelines for 4 rounds. A 1941 game takes 3-4 rounds to reach “setup 1942”, at which point the game time is half over.

[questioneer]

@squirecam:

The poll heading really mistates the intent. If a “tournament setup” is to be done, it must take into account the limited time frame available (6-8-10 hrs, likely 8).

A global game wont get more than 6-7 rounds in that time frame.

If you “start” in 1940 (or even 1941) then you “waste” 3-4 rounds just getting to 1941 (or 42).

The poll doesnt make that clear, and is misleading as to why a tournament setup is needed.

A 1940 game is not practable because 3-4 rounds are “setup” and the USA sits on the sidelines for 4 rounds. A 1941 game takes 3-4 rounds to reach “setup 1942”, at which point the game time is half over.

Again, you are assuming that a 1940 game, or a 1941 game will eventually play into a “1942” setup which is false and very restrictive.  This has been proven through the AA50 experiment (41 vs. 42) in which most people prefer the 41 over the 42 for that reason.

[Emperor_Taiki]

@WILD:

I like what Emperor_Taiki recommended. Fall of 1941 would be a great start time. The political rules would be in the rear view mirror and most of the pro neutrals would be decided. Germany would start deep into Soviet tt, but Russia would have more then just inf at this point to slow down the German advances and start counterattacks. Germany would still have to decide which direction to concentrate its forces. There would still be plenty of action in the Med & Africa. A late fall 41 would also work best in the Pacific.

thank you

[maverick_76]

I personally want just the 1940 scenario. If I wanted a 1941 or 1942 scenario, then I would play my other A&A games. I am so looking forward to all the political rules and what not that will come into play since it is 1940. Deciding when to attack becomes a real test of skill and understanding of the battlefield, instead of having a start that always opens the same way (like we have with our 1941 & 42 editions of the game) with the same attacks and the same purchases etc., now we can have some flavor and for me that is all I want from this game, more flavor and options.

[Emperor_Taiki]

Well, its not like the 1940 setup disapears if there is an additional setup option. I think everyone is going to like playing the 1940 the most, but sometimes you only have six hours intead of twelve. So if there was a late 1941 setup, players could get right into the thick of things while still having alot of different strategic options.

Can Late 1941 be added as an option.

Of the people who have posted, it seems there is one vote for '42, one for '41, and two for Late '41. It seems a little unfair.

[maverick_76]

I feel that a 1941 setup could work, but the problem with 1942 is that you would have to give the axis a huge advantage to win the game at that point. My feeling is at that point in time the axis were at the pinnacle, but also were in a downfall because operation Barbarossa failed to capture Moscow and the Russians had committed Siberian forces to the European side of the war. Germany had made its run and from this point forward they (USSR and Germany) were equal in forces and buying power. The only problem is Germany also has to still deal with the UK and the USA as well. It is just too much IMO, just like in real life the axis have to make a monster push to either get the UK or Russia out of the game early in order to stand a chance against the Americans and the other surviving power. That is almost impossible to do with a 1942 scenario. For an example see the original Axis & Allies game, I’d say allies could win that 90% of the time because the numbers were too much in their favor.

[Dylan the Canadian]

@maverick_76:

I feel that a 1941 setup could work, but the problem with 1942 is that you would have to give the axis a huge advantage to win the game at that point. My feeling is at that point in time the axis were at the pinnacle, but also were in a downfall because operation Barbarossa failed to capture Moscow and the Russians had committed Siberian forces to the European side of the war. Germany had made its run and from this point forward they (USSR and Germany) were equal in forces and buying power. The only problem is Germany also has to still deal with the UK and the USA as well. It is just too much IMO, just like in real life the axis have to make a monster push to either get the UK or Russia out of the game early in order to stand a chance against the Americans and the other surviving power. That is almost impossible to do with a 1942 scenario. For an example see the original Axis & Allies game, I’d say allies could win that 90% of the time because the numbers were too much in their favor.

Spring 1942 of the 14 cities they had.

1. Berlin
2. Warsaw
3. Paris
4. Rome
5. Tokyo
6. Shanghai
7. Manila
8. Hong Kong,

Only 8. 6 more to go.

[maverick_76]

If you read my post I tell you that even though you only need 6 more cities, that is the toughest part. Because this game is based on semi-historical setups, Barbarossa has just happened and Germany is thin on men in the East, Russia is gaining steam, and the US is fully into the war because Pearl Harbor just happened too. And Germany declared war on the US in the hopes that Japan would do the same for Russia, which it did not in real life, but you can do in the game.

While the battle of the Atlantic was still in the Germans favor, very soon the mass of the Royal Navy and US Navy just swallow up the U-Boats partially because Germany was using every resource it had to attack Russia, which was busy trading space for time at this point. Japan was very powerful militarily, but inferior economically to the US. Also they are spending all their time trying to take more of Asia or hold it while also trying to stop a US fleet and (in the game) trying to attack Russia from behind. It is just too much at that point in time so that is why I feel that the latest you can do for the Axis is a 1941 setup. Anything later and the tide has begun to turn in the allies favor too much for the game to be balanced. I think this setup will allow the best balance for either side to have an equal shot at victory.

The crux for the Axis is to get rid of Russia as fast as possible, so logical thinking says that you must make Barbarossa succeed (and threaten an eastern invasion with Japan at all times) in order for that to happen.

[Dylan the Canadian]

@maverick_76:

If you read my post I tell you that even though you only need 6 more cities, that is the toughest part. Because this game is based on semi-historical setups, Barbarossa has just happened and Germany is thin on men in the East, Russia is gaining steam, and the US is fully into the war because Pearl Harbor just happened too. And Germany declared war on the US in the hopes that Japan would do the same for Russia, which it did not in real life, but you can do in the game.

While the battle of the Atlantic was still in the Germans favor, very soon the mass of the Royal Navy and US Navy just swallow up the U-Boats partially because Germany was using every resource it had to attack Russia, which was busy trading space for time at this point. Japan was very powerful militarily, but inferior economically to the US. Also they are spending all their time trying to take more of Asia or hold it while also trying to stop a US fleet and (in the game) trying to attack Russia from behind. It is just too much at that point in time so that is why I feel that the latest you can do for the Axis is a 1941 setup. Anything later and the tide has begun to turn in the allies favor too much for the game to be balanced. I think this setup will allow the best balance for either side to have an equal shot at victory.

The crux for the Axis is to get rid of Russia as fast as possible, so logical thinking says that you must make Barbarossa succeed (and threaten an eastern invasion with Japan at all times) in order for that to happen.

I know it won’t be too hard, to get 6 more cities

[questioneer]

bump…most people have the game now, so it may be a better time to collect more data. :-)

[poloplayer15]

would 1942 work for Russia? they would have very little income seeing that most of their IPC’s are made i the western part of the country.