Nazi Germany VS The Soviet Union

[NoMercy]

@Crazy:

So, it does not matter how many guns you have at your disposal, if you can’t feed your troops in the feild to shoot them.
    And it is a given, if Hitler had not interfered with his Generals, the war would have draggedon another 3 to 5 years perhaps.
    And a lot more human suffering.
       Crazy Ivan  :roll:

will with the Germans taking moscow and other cities (Stalingrad and the Caucauses) and Leningrad more easily and fast they could have setup more logistics support for there troops (more railroads setup to supply and move troops fast back and forth)

the question was if it was just Germany vs Russia then the Russians would have lost to much ground and troops to fast to fight back.
if they burn there fields in the fall/winter, by spring they are growing nicely again…

it’s the extra civillians that would have suffered to feed the advancing german army.

[Yahoshua]

@M36:

I was unaware of this.

But regardless of what the bastards did, you cannot label an entire military organization because of the actions of one unit. There are Marines who have done such things, that does not make the Marine Corp an evil organizations. We are still the best warriors on the planet.

This was not merely the actions of a rogue division or a “Bad Apple” company of soldiers, the SS organization as a whole was committing atrocities all across the board wherever they went.

Also a notable difference between the Marines and the SS is that the Marines punish soldiers who commit a crime, the SS encouraged it.

[NoMercy]

The SS was a volunteer unit and trained to be the best and were around before World War 2 started… I am under the understanding they knew full well what the “SS unit” was all about… and even more so when the war was going on.

A lot of German soldiers were condemmed for not following orders (like shooting Jews or civilians for no reason)

it was the SS unit that was the worst…

Most Germans had no choice but to serve there country and this is where I think a lot of them were actually good men and women…
Actually I think everyone had to fight unless there was a pretty good reason why you couldn’t (some bad medical condition)…I mean they were recruiting children near the end of the war in the very last days…

[Guest]

Hitlers plans of extermination where well kept secrets. Privates where not made  privy to these secrets just by joining the SS.

[cyan]

@M36:

Hitlers plans of extermination where well kept secrets. Privates where not made  privy to these secrets just by joining the SS.

nazi is a nazi no matter how you spin it and nazi’s are evil.

[ajgundam5]

Yes … Nazis are Nazis but normal soldiers in the Army were not necessarily Nazis

[AgentOrange]

@AJ:

Yes … Nazis are Nazis but normal soldiers in the Army were not necessarily Nazis

Thank you AJ!  Yes, the SS may have been trained and brought up to trample everyone without discrimination, but the regular average joe in the German army was not quite the same type of brutal, merciless soldier.

[Yemble]

It was SS units which hunted down Jews, political criminals, and other “rotents” in areas recently captured by Germany.  Einstatzgroupen I believe they were called, which located and eliminated inferior groups of people.  They comprised the fanatics, who were hitlers personal guard, who believed the shit he spouted whereas the wehrmacht was the army which was the most likely to not know about the atrocities of SS.

[cyan]

@Yemble:

It was SS units which hunted down Jews, political criminals, and other “rotents” in areas recently captured by Germany.  Einstatzgroupen I believe they were called, which located and eliminated inferior groups of people.  They comprised the fanatics, who were hitlers personal guard, who believed the sh*t he spouted whereas the wehrmacht was the army which was the most likely to not know about the atrocities of SS.

there like the revolutionary guard for Iran. just as guilty.

[AgentOrange]

@cyan:

@Yemble:

It was SS units which hunted down Jews, political criminals, and other “rotents” in areas recently captured by Germany.  Einstatzgroupen I believe they were called, which located and eliminated inferior groups of people.  They comprised the fanatics, who were hitlers personal guard, who believed the sh*t he spouted whereas the wehrmacht was the army which was the most likely to not know about the atrocities of SS.

there like the revolutionary guard for Iran. just as guilty.

I don’t see how they’re “just as guilty” if they actually didn’t know about it.

[Guest]

Okay, I am in the Republican party. If George Bush suddenly revealed that he had a final solution for Jews, I must be just as guilty as he is.  :roll:

Being a soldier in the SS does not make someone an evil person.

[Yahoshua]

That’s a very childish comparison M36.

Hitler had declared numerous times before that the Jews and other non-aryans should be considered sub-human ‘things’ not worthy of any compassion.

There had been countless individual incidents of state agression against Jews, Gypsies, and dissenters against the state. From the act of stripping German Jewry of their citizenship, to the forcible expulsion of Polish Jews near the Polish border, and the Kristalnacht pogrom.

One can hardly say that aggression against Jews was unheard of in Nazi Germany, or that rumors of camps geared toward exterminating Jews were being built and put into operation (ghettos were common knowledge by the time the death camps began their grisly work).

I have yet heard President Bush declare that if there were to be war in Iran that it would result not in the destruction of the United States, but the destruction of American Moslems. Have you? I have yet heard of widespread violent discrimination against moslems by burning out their mosques and shooting the head imam. Have you?

But I digress here. My point being that the SS cannot be held to being merely partially responsible, as they were formed for main purpose of “purifying” conquered territories. The Wermacht took a lesser role in this respect, yet each still bears blood on their hands for the atrocities that had been committed.

[Guest]

A childish conversion eh? It is a perfect comparison, which shows the absurdity of labeling everybody in a party just because the leaders of said party are megalomaniacs.

Soldiers cannot be held responsible for following their orders. This is what soldiers are trained to do.

[ajgundam5]

@Yahoshua:

That’s a very childish comparison M36.

Why?

[Yahoshua]

Read my post AJ, I already explained why.

M36, the chain of command does not shield you from personal and moral responsibility. Whether you choose to quietly go along with it and hope to survive whatever it is to come or if you decide to desert and refuse to follow orders that would undoubdetly be considered war crimes is up to you.

State indoctrinated hatred of Jews, Gypsies, and dissidents was well known in Nazi Germany, I have yet seen the same type of behavior here in the U.S.

[cyan]

@Yahoshua:

State indoctrinated hatred of Jews, Gypsies, and dissidents was well known in Nazi Germany, I have yet seen the same type of behavior here in the U.S.

where? if you have there probably the family of Nazi’s who fled to America to become spies.

[Yahoshua]

You misread my post.  :-D

[Yemble]

i find it unlikely that ss units didn’t know what was going on.

[Guest]

Well, it is the truth. The SS was simple an elite organization of the Whermacht, kind of like MFR is to us, or the Rangers are to the Army.

Hitler had different ideas, however, and employed the SS in his extermination campaign.

[Yemble]

Hitler created the SS.  As a matter of fact he started with two “special forces” units.  The SA andd SS.  He had the SS arrest and kill the leaders of the of the SA.  The SS was then indoctrinated with Nazi ideology.  How many examples of SS atrocities would it take to convince you that the SS was a special forces unit which in large part carried out the fuhrer’s orders?