You guys know how to make butter right?

Get a PC and buy the IL2 combo pack.

The history and evolution of words is always interesting.

I’ll respond to these in turn:

(a) PD & GD never returns

While this may be the most practical and easiest solution , albeit the sole decision of the site owner, I don’t quite believe that it would be the correct way to solve the problem. The forums themselves aren’t the problem, it is the lack of members’ respect for the rules and for eachother. This is a line all of us have crossed at one point or another. Perhaps one of the solutions would be to lock the GD & PD intermittently to give members time to swallow their ego and calm down a bit. For the most part I believe this sort of method works quite well, provided that moderators continue to moderate appropriatly (as they have so far).

So my proposed solutions are these:

-Lay down or repeat concrete rules that members must abide by while in the PD & GD to make sure everyone understande what the boundaries are.

-Establish a minimum of credibility in any debate. Sources, wherever the source is or acquired from, must be true and factual in all accounts in the debate. (For example, stating that Einstein is a Nazi and bringing up a token website to “prove it” isn’t valid. All of us know that Einstein wasn’t a Nazi and have more than enough ample and reliable sources to use to prove it). Making a sticky of reliable sources (not “approved” by any single moderator in the sense of ones’ political leanings) is a good start of this. After thorough examination a group of moderators (at least 3) may approve and sticky a website as a reliable source (ie. Wikipedia, Dictionary.com) and posting a second sticky citing known unreliable sources (ie. BBC and Reuters) or posting fair warning that said sources aren’t 100% “balanced” (excuse me while I try to stifle my laughter). This will help reduce/eliminate accusations that a weblink a member posts to is merely “BS”. (I know I just opened a can of worms but please play along for a bit right now).

-Aggressive moderation of outright flaming (Evil Libs/ Evil Conservatives/ Stupid Lazy no good [insert member name]) and notification to all other members of why so-and-so was spanked for X reason. There doesn’t need to be a moderator name associated with who did the spanking. However, this style of moderation stops where facts are concerned, and a more careful approach will be needed when the situation calls for it (possibly a committee of moderators to handle the problem by blacking out a post and then reversing that act once a decision has been made on the nature of the post in question). For example, it is well known that the majority of terrorists that are being fought are followers of the religion of Islam. This isn’t slandering Islam, and it is a fact that should not be silenced in order to be politically correct. If the facts hold water and is not considered hate speech (as per the laws of the U.S. where the host server is based) then the post should be allowed to stand unfiltered and unaltered in order to maintain the integrity of both member and moderator. If the post does NOT hold water however (ie. saying that gravity doesn’t exist because a consensus of scientists said so or X religion/lifestyle is evil but states no factual support as to why that opinion is held), then moderators would be obliged to insert the proper rebuttal (in red text) to that individuals’ post and remind the member that nonsensical/nonfactual/Trolling/Baiting posts aren’t appreciated and ask them to refrain from doing so in the future.

-In the event that the GD & PD forums become so tiresome of moderating and babysitting and spanking for the mods, that the forums be locked temporarily (a couple days or a week if need be) in order to give the moderators some peace of mind from the field day members are having with eachother.

-I also encourage the moderators to participate in the GD & PD topics with members a bit more. Part of good moderating is knowing how members express themselves, so as not to misunderstand what a member means when they post something the moderator thinks is offensive. It’s also nice to get to know the moderators on a personal or at least friendly basis, it’s not as if the position of moderators are free from personal ideals or influences. The better members know the moderators, the less the protests will be when a controversial decision is made and the reasons as to why. And if decisions over a post is moderated by at least 3 moderators, there is some guarantee of balanced partiality from all sides. Providing that one of each of the moderators promise to vote Democrat, Republican, and Independent this coming election (just kidding).

-Members need to be a little more patient with eachother and actually post facts for their argument (they also need to declare when they’re being sarcastic or satirical to help prevent misunderstandings [we need a sarcasm smiley]). Not some obscure saying from a paerson whose name they don’t remember. Petty and undeserved insults contribute better to a bar brawl than it does a forum debate. Go do it at the bar around the corner, not here.

I know some of my ideas are a bit extreme, but for the most part I believe they’re a good starting point for cleaning up the GD & PD forums.

(b) PD & GD come back as normal

Keeping in mind that the current state of affiars is what caused this sort of situation to occur, doing this will solve nothing and merely prolong the problem.

© PD & GD become an unmoderated free-for-all

This is one way to kill the GD & PD for sure. It will become so inundated with trolls, flame threads, and pure nonsense that it will eventually be abandoned by the participants, and then closed due to lack of use. If you want to kill it slowly, this is the way to do it.

(d) PD & GD become a new, separate website

An idea in and of itself, but it would still need to be properly moderated and members made to play nice. This I believe, is a key issue to resolving this situation.

You misread my post.  :-D

Read my post AJ, I already explained why.

M36, the chain of command does not shield you from personal and moral responsibility. Whether you choose to quietly go along with it and hope to survive whatever it is to come or if you decide to desert and refuse to follow orders that would undoubdetly be considered war crimes is up to you.

State indoctrinated hatred of Jews, Gypsies, and dissidents was well known in Nazi Germany, I have yet seen the same type of behavior here in the U.S.

That’s a very childish comparison M36.

Hitler had declared numerous times before that the Jews and other non-aryans should be considered sub-human ‘things’ not worthy of any compassion.

There had been countless individual incidents of state agression against Jews, Gypsies, and dissenters against the state. From the act of stripping German Jewry of their citizenship, to the forcible expulsion of Polish Jews near the Polish border, and the Kristalnacht pogrom.

One can hardly say that aggression against Jews was unheard of in Nazi Germany, or that rumors of camps geared toward exterminating Jews were being built and put into operation (ghettos were common knowledge by the time the death camps began their grisly work).

I have yet heard President Bush declare that if there were to be war in Iran that it would result not in the destruction of the United States, but the destruction of American Moslems. Have you? I have yet heard of widespread violent discrimination against moslems by burning out their mosques and shooting the head imam. Have you?

But I digress here. My point being that the SS cannot be held to being merely partially responsible, as they were formed for main purpose of “purifying” conquered territories. The Wermacht took a lesser role in this respect, yet each still bears blood on their hands for the atrocities that had been committed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauerkraut

Originated in Portugal but is derived from a Fench word. It says it there in the Wikipedia link (spelled Boche).

The “Kraut” was from the german food Saeurkraut (I think it’s something like fermented cabbage but I’m not really sure).

“Jerry” is the American spelling of the British term, the british called the Germans “Gerries” (a slang term for Germans).

More information can be found here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_(WWII)