Games W/O National Objectives

I stand corrected.  Apologies for misleading anyone with my misinformation.

Thanks for the clarification as well as posting the correct rule
FYI this is listed at:  http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=ah/article/ah20081212

Fighter Escorts and Interceptors

Fighters can participate in strategic bombing raids. Attacking fighters may escort and protect the bombers, and they can originate from any territory, range permitting. Any or all defending fighters based in a territory that is strategically bombed can participate in the defense of the industrial complex. The number of fighters that will defend is decided after the attacker’s Combat Movement phase is completed and before the Combat phase begins.

After antiaircraft fire is resolved against the attacking air units, if there are any defending fighters an air battle occurs between the attacking and defending air units. This combat is resolved in the same way as a normal combat, with a few exceptions. The fighters have an attack value of 1 (2 if the attacker has the Jet Power research breakthrough) and a defense value of 2, and the bombers have no attack value. In addition, the combat lasts for only one round. After the battle, any surviving bombers proceed to carry out the raid as normal.

Fighters participating as either an escort or a defender cannot participate in other battles during that turn. Defending interceptors must return to their original territory. If that territory is captured, the fighters may move one space to land in a friendly territory or on a friendly aircraft carrier. This movement occurs after all of the attacker’s combats have been resolved and before the attacker’s Noncombat Move phase begins. If no such landing space is available, the fighters are lost.

@squirecam:

@Frontovik:

yeah, it makes a radical change for axis
see, with NO’s, axis need to kill russia (most of the cases)
without NO’s, axis need to keept russia from killing them :-)

41 is impossible without NO’s, and '42 is not certain.

Is this because of the allied bombing? Or income? Or because Germany lacks the amount of troops it has in 42?

I think its the bombing that unbalances the game. Without that, its much more fair.

well, we don’t use bombing so much
it’s just the troops, and the fact that all 3 allies have each about the same cash as italy and germany. Japan can advance pretty well, but also with 3 tanks less each round

@axis_roll:

That’s what we play in our FTF group:

Escort rule but the AAA shots are not taken against escorting ftrs.  Works pretty well.  With the ftr subjected to AAA fire, it was TOO costly to do any SBRs, and that eliminated them totally from the game.  Too much of a drastic change, in our gaming groups opinion.

I like this one

@questioneer:

Played 2 games with the Smorey FTF rules last night against an experienced player.

In the 1st game, Russia took all three front territories- Belo, EUkr and Ukr.  However, they really paid for it because Germany came reeling back.  German naval successes really helped though (these G1 navy battles are the diceyest things in the game- win them and you have a chance, lose them and life is difficult for Axis).  Moscow threatened by stack round 3 or 4- game over- forfeit.  Tech- Russia (bad choice)- got increased production- useless by that time, US- long range aircraft- nasty tech, Japan- super subs- it semi-countered US’s LRA.

1-0 Questioneer

In the 2nd game, I was Allies.  As Russia, I only went after 2 of the three majors- Ukraine and EUkraine.  I evacuated Karelia with AA to Arc and built all inf.  Moved all Inf west from Siberia.  Japan did its normal damage in the east with an IC in Manchuria and later in Sumatra (E Ind).

As Allies I went a KGF, with a small navy in the Pacific swooping down to stack Hawaii and then swooping down to Australia just to be a distraction- indirectly worked.  By round 3 I was on Africa and had a good shuck route going there and threatening France also.  With early German naval successes, Axis went full force towards Russia.

Game came down to a stack battle between Germany and a Russian stack with some Allied planes.  Although the punch count was close- slight Allied advantage, Russia won with 5tnks and allied planes left.  Axis had nothing behind the force to back up except for a few Italian units- game won in 3 rounds by forfeit after that.  No tech was won- only Japan tried it.

2-0 Questioneer

I defintely, believe one should take the Allies here and give the bid to the Axis.  By the way- the bid was $4 to the Axis in both games.  I still like playing with National Objectives- it gives Axis a more balanced chance.  Playing with these tourny rules, I think Axis will lose against experienced Allied players most of the time.

Of course, I will play more practice games with this format.

So did both your games ended in rounds 3-4 ??

@questioneer:

Yes, by round 4 technically.

I’ve always been of the belief that if games are ending early, either its a particularly bad dice outcome, or the other side is not playing very well.

Questions:

What did each of you buy as Germany?

When you were allies, did he attack you, or vice versa?

It will be a while until we come close to the same feeling for (un)balance in AA50 w/o NOs as in Revised.

My guess is a unit bid same level as Revised or even lower. At least there should be consensus that allies are favored in both scenarios.

And people should have a minimum of common sense…. :roll:

If we are to discuss the balance w/o NOs, or any other setting, if someone happens to believe that axis will win 40% of no bids no tech games in Revised, they are delusional. My premise for my statement is: 1vs1 online, live game, experienced players. If they have delusions related to Revised, they will probably have delusions related to AA50 also.

Now, if it is 2vs2/2vs3 or beer and pretzels something, the allied advantage may not be excessive. Axis may win well over 10% w/o any bids.

As DM said in another thread, there is a difference between 1vs1 online and f2f boardgame local playgroups, even if it is experienced players in both settings.

And players seem to prefer the 41 +NO for some strange reason… :-D :-) it’s also my personal favorite.