Do Jews Have a Right to Representation? Some Think Not.

“Arab countries use the Jews/Israel as a scapegoat for their problems. When, in reality, they need to examine their own governments for a big part of the problems.
A handful find it easier to blame someone else (Jews, for example)for their problems. One charismatic speaker picks up the clarion call and, voila, you’ve got the KKK, Nation of Islam, Jonestown, Waco (American examples).”

The Jews are blamed by all, not just by the Arabs for the problems of society. In recent times that has gone down, but it returns at times because it was so embedded and a big part of Christian society until the Holocaust.

I don’t think it matters what Yanny’s Almanac’s information comes from, it’s impossible that there are 16 million Jews in the United States alone. I’ve looked at many sources on this topic, and they all say that there are between 14-15 million Jews in the entire world.

maybe the jews had an international breddeing day and there numbers sprouted oup one year ;)

Sure… :roll: And when would this be exactly?

@Xi:

F_k, It’s a different kind of Holocaust. A little more subtle.

@F_k:

2nd: How do europeans “eliminate the guilt of 60+ years”? Who is erasing names from the monuments?

Guilt is not my problem … it’s theirs. This is documented in Poland. A Polish girl did research and found the current town mayor and others in power had supportedthe Nazis. Then had removed the names from a monument.

Ahm,
so it was the name of the mayor and the “others in power” that were eradicated?
And you complain about that ???
Or am i again completely misunderstanding you?

To the subtleness:
For me, one of the defining traits of the holocaust was the way it was done: using the industrial complex and abilities for mass-murder. Murder through work, starvation, torturing, “science” and “plain” killing. Another trait is the defenselessness of the victims.
I can’t see that happening to Israel.
Israel may be in a “war”, but calling that a “holocaust” makes a good and sharp sword blunt, which should not be in Israels interest.

@F_alk:

@Xi:

F_k, It’s a different kind of Holocaust. A little more subtle.

@F_k:

2nd: How do europeans “eliminate the guilt of 60+ years”? Who is erasing names from the monuments?

Guilt is not my problem … it’s theirs. This is documented in Poland. A Polish girl did research and found the current town mayor and others in power had supportedthe Nazis. Then had removed the names from a monument.

Ahm,
so it was the name of the mayor and the “others in power” that were eradicated?
And you complain about that ???
Or am i again completely misunderstanding you?

To the subtleness:
For me, one of the defining traits of the holocaust was the way it was done: using the industrial complex and abilities for mass-murder. Murder through work, starvation, torturing, “science” and “plain” killing. Another trait is the defenselessness of the victims.
I can’t see that happening to Israel.
Israel may be in a “war”, but calling that a “holocaust” makes a good and sharp sword blunt, which should not be in Israels interest.

Israel doesn’t call it a Holocaust. It’s the Palestinians and their supporters who claim that Israel is committing another Holocaust against them. The queen of Jordan claimed that.

@Xi:

Sorry. Let me clarify.
… Those in power, who had supported the Nazis, had the names of Jews killed in the Holocaust removed from a monument.

Have the erased names been added again?

Overextension of an example minimizes its value when said example is used appropriately.

Exactly what i wanted to say, thanks.

closes this part of the thread

@EmuGod:

Israel doesn’t call it a Holocaust. It’s the Palestinians and their supporters who claim that Israel is committing another Holocaust against them. The queen of Jordan claimed that.

But that was not the point here. We didn’t look at the Palestinians, at least not in that part of the thread.

@EmuGod:

@F_alk:

@Xi:

Israel doesn’t call it a Holocaust.

… And the Germans didn’t either.

The Halocaust happened what, 60 years ago? It was a horrible thing, but I don’t think we people today should be paying the price of it. For example, don’t Germans have to pay a heafty compensation Tax to Jews in their country? Falk, enlighten me on that. That tax is unlawful, its not like any German under the age of 80 (who are probably retired and not paying taxes) was part of the Halocaust.

@Yanny:

@EmuGod:

@F_alk:

@Xi:

Israel doesn’t call it a Holocaust.

… And the Germans didn’t either.

The Halocaust happened what, 60 years ago? It was a horrible thing, but I don’t think we people today should be paying the price of it. For example, don’t Germans have to pay a heafty compensation Tax to Jews in their country? Falk, enlighten me on that. That tax is unlawful, its not like any German under the age of 80 (who are probably retired and not paying taxes) was part of the Halocaust.

I agree, thats silly.

@Mr:

@Yanny:

@EmuGod:

@F_alk:

@Xi:

Israel doesn’t call it a Holocaust.

… And the Germans didn’t either.

The Halocaust happened what, 60 years ago? It was a horrible thing, but I don’t think we people today should be paying the price of it. For example, don’t Germans have to pay a heafty compensation Tax to Jews in their country? Falk, enlighten me on that. That tax is unlawful, its not like any German under the age of 80 (who are probably retired and not paying taxes) was part of the Halocaust.

I agree, thats silly.

---

I agree too. :)

Maybe that’s why so many Jews are immigrating back to Germany (or so my German teacher says). Smart Germans. :-?

No, I don’t think many Jews are immigrating back to Germany. Yanny, you are judging the compensation as though it were a normal crime. Crimes against humanity are judged differently. In these crimes, the war criminals are still executed even though exceution is not a common practicei n many countries. For example, Israel executed Adolf Eichmann for palying a role in the Holocaust (he made sure the trains would arriveon time). That was Israel’s only execution. General Hideki Tojo of Japan was executed by the Americans for crimes against humanity because he was the Japanese prime minister during World War 2 and due to him atrocities such as the Rape of Nanking occurred. Think of it more like a national debt. It has to be paid off to the survivors because nothing can really repay them for what they went through. Some countries today still don’t pay for their involvement and still haven’t acknowledged what they did. Austria is the classic example. Switzerland is only now starting to return the money of the Jews it laundered during World War 2. If we thought about it your way, why should I as a Canadian pay off the national debt? I mean, it was the generation before me that made this debt so why should I have to pay it off? It’s not like me or my government was responsible for bringing about this debt.

@Yanny:

The Halocaust happened what, 60 years ago? It was a horrible thing, but I don’t think we people today should be paying the price of it. For example, don’t Germans have to pay a heafty compensation Tax to Jews in their country? Falk, enlighten me on that. That tax is unlawful, its not like any German under the age of 80 (who are probably retired and not paying taxes) was part of the Halocaust.

We don’t pay a distinct tax for that, but the german government pays out of its budget. The payments to Israel are closed, but thanks to the american law system and lawyers, they were about to sue companies that had used forced labor (which includes victims more than just jews). The threat was of course to effectively bankrupt the corporations who had anything to do (like subsidies or just trading) in the US.
There then was a call to all german companies (even those founded later, or who had provably not used forced labor) to start a foundation which should pay for those claims: Many joined, but not all, still they got the starting money for that foundation, and now it works, and AFAIK they managed an agreement outside court.

What makes me angry, is that german WWII deserteurs had to fight until our nowadays red-green government was installed, to be washed clean of the “dishonor” of “leaving the troops”. They were silent heros of the WWII, not fighting for injustice, but suffering for that (either by running and hiding, or getting captured by germans, which meant death, or get captured by the allies, which meant POW). They do not get compensation or a pension, unlike former SS-members, who have been trialed after the war but not found “guilty enough not to be able to fight against the newly emerged enemy”, either USSR or US. They receive a pension form the german government, as well as former SS-members from other countries.
That is what makes me sick!

@EmuGod:

… Yanny, you are judging the compensation as though it were a normal crime. Crimes against humanity are judged differently.
…If we thought about it your way, why should I as a Canadian pay off the national debt? I mean, it was the generation before me that made this debt so why should I have to pay it off? It’s not like me or my government was responsible for bringing about this debt.

But compensation should or should not be payed to the generations following those to that this horrible injustice was done?

@F_alk:

@EmuGod:

… Yanny, you are judging the compensation as though it were a normal crime. Crimes against humanity are judged differently.
…If we thought about it your way, why should I as a Canadian pay off the national debt? I mean, it was the generation before me that made this debt so why should I have to pay it off? It’s not like me or my government was responsible for bringing about this debt.

But compensation should or should not be payed to the generations following those to that this horrible injustice was done?

good question - not to sideline the thread - but this is similar to the “native question” in Canada - how to compensate for mistakes made by the British and French 00’s of years ago, and then the residential schools and Indian Affairs 40 years ago.

@cystic:

good question - not to sideline the thread - but this is similar to the “native question” in Canada

It was aimed at that and the “compensate blacks for former slavery…”-thread :)